Written by dinamofan:), CSR HNL correspondent
Here are the results for Oct. 2-4…
Dinamo Zagreb [2 – 1] Varteks Varaždin
Dinamo went into Sunday’s televized match with Varteks in good spirits following their midweek win in the Europa Liga. Krunoslav Jurčić saw fit to rest Robert Kovač, Leandro Cufre, Ilija Sivonjić and Pedro Morales while giving outings to Adrian Callelo, Ivan Tomečak, Luis Ibanez and Miroslav Slepička. Dinamo started the game well and opened the scoring on 33 minutes after Mario Mandžukić was set up by Sammir. Midweek hero Milan Badelj scored the second after Mandžukić found him in the box. However, Varteks stayed in the game and scored with a fine effort from the lively Matija Smrekar. Varteks pressured for the equalizer and after seeing Goran Mujanović go close, Dinamo threw Ivica Vrdoljak into the action to tighten up the midfield. Gordon Vuk had one last chance to claim a point for Varteks after Filip Lončarić kept out Miljenko Mumlek, but the young substitute couldn’t take it. Dinamo’s Callelo was also prevented his first HNL1 goal as Mandžukić fouled a defender before assisting.
Dinamo are now onto 28 points from 10 games played. They are 8 points clear of their nearest rival Cibalia, but are more importantly 13 points ahead of Hajduk Split. Mario Mandžukić scored his eighth goal of the season tonight and will leave Dinamo’s camp along with Robert Kovač and Dejan Lovren to team up with Croatia during the upcoming international break. Lovren is expected to be in Slaven Bilić’s plans as Dario Knežević picked up an injury on Sunday.
NK Istra 1961 [0 – 1 ] Hajduk Split
Hajduk Split continue to scratch around for their best form following this narrow win over Istra. Ante Vukušić was given his first league start in nearly two months and found redemption by striking the lone goal of the game. The win moves Hajduk up to 7th place in the table. Hajduk will need a run of wins to move away from a pack of 11 teams who appear to be stunting each others progress by defeating one another. Istra sit just below this area 4th from the bottom. The January transfer window will be decisive to their season when they will likely recieve offers for their star players Asim Sehić and Khallilou Traore.
HNK Šibenik [0 – 2] Cibalia Vinkovci
Two of HNL1’s top teams met in Šibenik Saturday night for a clash that would shake up the HNL table. Cibalia came into town fresh off their comfortable goalless draw against Hajduk Split last week. After a dreary first half, it appeared this match would go the same way. There was little to no action to report on until Cibalia was awarded a penalty when Husić was fouled by Samir Duro in the box. Zeljko Malčić stepped up to put Cibalia a goal up. Cibalia was able to build on their lead as the same play added a second goal on 67 minutes. The game finished at 2-0, despite late opportunities for Ermin Zec. Cibalia leap above Šibenik into second place. Meanwhile, former Šibenik full back Patrice Kwedi has signed with Iskra Zelina after failing to attract a new club in HNL1. The 26 year old Cameroonian is an example to a number of free agents. He was due to join Greek club Larissa, but as the deal collapsed at the last moment he was left without a club. Rather than be inactive, Kwedi was willing to drop down to the Croatian third division.
ROUND 10 HNL HIGHLIGHTS
Karlovac [0 – 0] NK Zagreb
NK ZAGREB IS FINALLY ON THE BOARD!
NK Zagreb recieved their first point of the season in a goalless draw away to Karlovac. It is unlikely they will celebrate this result with much cheer as they remain eight points behind fourth from the bottom Istra. Jethon brought stability to the defense on his debut, but NK Zagreb are still with only 4 goals scored in 10 games all season. As Krunoslav Lovrek’s registration will arrive in Zagreb this week, he will be expected to provide goal scoring threats. Since Lovrek has been training with Zagreb for the last fortnight, Zagreb may even be willing to throw the player straight into their forward line to face Dinamo later this month. American John Will is also on trial with the club following his release from Serbia’s Cukaricki Stankom.
NK Osijek [4 – 2] Inter Zaprešić
NK Osijek were involved in the game of the day for a second successful weekend after a high scoring encounter against Zaprešić. Zaprešić opened up the scoring on 8 minutes when Dodo fired his first of the season. Josip Barišić equalized only for Mario Grgurović to quickly put Zaprešić back in front. Domogoj Vida immediately replied for Osijek, before Barišić scored his second. The second half was a bit tighter due to Budimir’s red card for the away side. Vida matched Barišić’s feat by heading home his second of the game in the last minute. Osijek will be happy at the win. However, they need to stop conceding so many goals. They have now let 7 get by in two games. Zaprešić meantime remain in the relegation zone and missed Matej Delač for a second straight game.
Međimurje [0 – 3] NK Lokomotiva
Roy Ferencina’s Lokomotiva have been making rapid improvement in HNL1 and this all came together on Friday night at Međimurje. It’s not good news for the rest of the division as many players from Lokomotiva are from Dinamo’s reserve side and have taken to the HNL1 like a duck to water. Experienced midfielder Zjelko Sopić helped Lokomotiva relax early on with a strike on 8 minutes. Nino Bule struck the second on 37 minutes with Puljić bagging the third. The win takes Lokomotiva clear of the relegation zone and into the pack of teams in midtable.
NK Zadar [1 – 0] Slaven Belupo
The optimism at Slaven Belupo following their 5-2 win last week over Osijek quickly disappeared as their form desserted them once again in this 1-0 defeat to Zadar. Zadar, who were on a poor run of form themselves, scored in the first half through Ivan Čurjurić. Belupo have finally registered Krunoslav Jambručić and Igor Gal, nearly a month after they signed them in the mid-season transfer window. Gal joined Belupo’s long injury list and was unable to take his place in the team. NK Zadar who released midfielder Jozo Pletikošić in midweek moved clear of the relegation zone.
Croatia Sesvete [1 – 2] NK Rijeka
Rijeka made it two wins out of two games for Zoran Vulić as they came from behind to defeat Croatia Sesvete. Sesvete opened the scoring through in form defender Vedran Celiscak, before Vedran Turkalj’s goal equalized within four minutes. The game stayed that way until the last five minutes when Argentine playmaker Ramon Fernandez struck the winner. Rijeka’s win was all the more satisfying considering Radomir Dalović and Sandi Krizman are both expected to be out for a month. Nastja Ceh and Miroslav Karoglan are also still out of condition. The win moves Rijeka on the heels of the top four.
SVAGUŠA’S BUSY WEEK
Hajduk’s acting chariman, Joško Svaguša, had a busy week which started off by claiming that Hajduk Split never contacted Dario Šimić. He also said that Dario Jertec and Marijan Buljat were dropped because they were ex-Dinamo players. Svaguša then started a war of words with former president Mate Peroš suggesting he has been left with massive wage costs due to poor financial planning on behalf of the former administration. He ended the week on a more positive note in Slovenia to discuss the transfer of talented young striker Etien Velikonja.
So who is Etien Velikonja? This Slovenian Under 21 international is a player of HIT Gorica who has scored 5 goals in 10 games so far this season. Last season he fired an impressive 17 goals in 32 games. Velikonja is only 20 years old but has scored 8 goals in 14 games for the U-21 Slovenia side. His club contract runs out in 2011. It is expected that Hajduk will complete Velikonja’s signature. He is rated in the £1m neighborhood. Part of Svaguša’s annoyance at Peroš this week may have to do with Velikonja’s transfer as the Nikola Kalinić and Drago Gabrić compensation money appears to be getting swallowed up quicker than he’d like.
Hajduk have already spent on Anas Sharbini and Ahmad Sharbini and are hampered by the wages of a fair amount of playing staff who rarely figure in the first team. Dario Jertec, Marijan Buljat, Ivo Smoje, Thiaquinhio, Marin Tomasov and Ivan Rodić would fit into this category. Svaguša also said that he is likely to shift out a number of players on loan, however this is mainly likely to apply to Mario Sacer, Ante Vukišić, Mario Tičinović, Toni Pezo and Jure Obsivac. Svaguša is likely to be engaged in a heated battle to shift a number of ‘out of favor’ players under long term contracts from the club and may likely transfer Senijad Ibričić to cover his costs, whilst compensation packages are agreed. Varteks remain interested in Jertec however Ivan Rodić has already declared his willingness to move clubs in the winter which could attract the attention of Slaven Belupo and Rijeka.
Next Matches: Round 11
Friday, October 16th
Zadar at Inter
Saturday, October 17th
Dinamo at NK Zagreb
Istra 1961 at Slaven Belupo
Croatia Sesvete at Lokomotiva
Međimurje at Varteks
Karlovac at Cibalia
Osijek at Rijeka
Sunday, October 18th
Šibenik at Hajduk
But we have a team for kids – its called Lokomotiva Zagreb and it plays in the same level as us. Whats wrong with sending all our untried youngsters down there to play not just one or two games, but every week. I agree with you Slepicka was other teams (not garbage), but another teams mediocre player. We wasn't gonna improve anything through signing him cos we just knocked out Sparta. Maybe an improvement from an aging Balaban and ineffective Tadic, but that's about it. Papadopoulos still intrigues me cos that goal record was so good in Panathanaikos. If he is third striker then i'd have no problem with that. Obviously we want a better striker, but considering its replacing Bosko and aging Sokota then its still a step in right direction. I'm not overly pro Croat regards the striker Dinamo clearly needs. I think if we are gonna compete in the level we want which is latter Europa Liga then we have to just go for whoever is best. After the next £10m which arrives in the bank, we should be looking to really sign high quality in the transfer market.
I actually 100% agree with Mamic's transfer policy. Dinamo were right not to blow all there money on expensive gambles whether Croatian or foriegn. There are so many gambles out there. I mean i'd argue that Tomasov, Jertec, Smoje and Rodic are a waste of space and money at Hajduk. Considering Hajduk's spending and size of that squad they should be at least top three and Europa Liga qualifiers by now.
I'd argue perhaps Slepi is sellable. We'll have to wait and see, but if we can offload him December that'd be great for both parties. At Dinamo i think we should sit back and really look at our reserve players and there ability to come into the team. Lokomotiva is the biggest asset Dinamo has. Its not often you can really take a good look at your reserves like Dinamo is able to this season. When we have guys who clearly are doing well down there, why waste good money on Vida. We should focusing on pumping our money into finding definitive quality for the decisive positions.
We went from 3-4 comments per week to now 30+ comments in 24 hours for the HNL report. I just want to give credit where credit is due. Dinamofan, keep up the good work!
My points regarding the greek and the czech from the start were the same; they were signing other peoples garbage and players that no other legitimate clubs wanted. What Pap did or did not do with Panathinakois is anciet history. If these guys were worth their salary they would have done something within weeks.
Play young croatian kids and find out if they are real deal or not. We knew these two bumbs were nothing.
I think your going completely off topic here, cos i'm not even talking about if Dinamo should be beating Osijek. You can have that conversation with yourself if you like. I'm purely discussing Vida's international credentials. However Vida should be stopping Slepi and Papa if he is international standard. One minute your saying they are rubbish and then that its okay that Vida can't deal with them. Papa made two assists in that game that led to goals. Your saying Croatia's defence is rubbish, but that Vida is the answer then saying but he's not responsible for any goal Osijek concede and that when he can't cope with Dinamo that its natural. Its not okay if he's international class. That's my whole point. He should be shutting them all down. That's what makes him international standard. A player can shine at a small club you know. Look at Ivica Olic at Marsonia. World class he was at a team which was getting relegated. Vida needs to really shine. Regards Dodo he is a guy with no confidence. Vida should have shut him down. Basically just sing Vida's praises on a fortnight when he hasn't conceded 7 in two and i might agree with you. But not this weekend.
As said – we are discussing if Vida should be ahead of Sablic, Knezevic, Krizanac, Simunic, Kovac, Lovren, Mijatovic and Vucko in the pecking order. Not discussing whether he is promising player. You're argueing he has nothing to do with Osijek's defending. We're arguing if he is international class. Me thinks not, you think so. End of story. I think he needs to be outstanding in HNL1 to get in Croatia's team, you say we let him off with doing nothing special against mediocre sides and call him up. Bit of a risk, but if that's your view fair enough.
Dinamo do win 5-0 each week don't they more or less. Lets face it – its more or less impossible to do, but we are trying. Just one draw, no losses so far with a 33 plus goal difference.
We don't have a big problem with Papa and Slep in HNL1. If Morales and Mandzo are scoring so much they can't all score. Its Euro where we hope Slepi and Papa to make a bigger impression than they are doing, but its not happened and that's where the disappointment exists so we have to replace them. With Slepi maybe he don't wanna be with us anymore now cos we never really play him so from this points its prob all downhill for him. He kinda threw away a first team jersey at Sparta and a national team place to come to us. Can't see the point in it myself. Should have stayed where he was.
As for Papa i think this guy still has till the end of season to turn it around. I'm not sure i really doubt he can score in HNL1, but really we can get a better number 9 than this. To be honest we are beyond thinking of HNL1 now. Its Europa liga where it all matters. HNL1 is just the league we happen to be dumped in and Hajduk, Rijeka and Belupo don't seem like they can be bothered to compete with us this season.
I keep saying this not sure if i'm gonna have to reach double figures in times i say it but Slepicka and Papa are better than Balaban and Sokota and Tadic. This is born out by how disappointing those other guys continue to be at their new clubs. I'll omit Sokota however cos he is less the player due to injuries. Basically each year a team should seek to have a better standard of player than the year before baring key sellings. Bosko and Tadic could not get into games. Papa can get in the game, but can't cause the type of goalscoring threat we desire. Therefore we have to look for another forward who can do what we want. That has nothing to do with HNL1. It is purely about our aims in Europe. A player can be good enough for HNL1 which Slepi and Papa are, but not good enough for Europa Liga.
If we actually look at Slepi. He was at the Sparta team we beat. If we beat them why would we need to go and buy there players. Its not gonna improve us in the way we'd like. That was the problem with signing Slepi. He belongs to a mediocre level. We need even better than that.
As for Papa i think he is a greater class of player than Slepi. He certainly is mobile at least. However still we need a better forward than him.
Oh yeah, Dinamo 5 – Osijek 1.
1st Goal, Goalie takes down the player. Penalty and a goal
2nd Goal, a cross to the far post, the other CB is neaten in coverage, Goal.
3rd Goal. Badelj shot from just out side the box, Goal
4th Goal, Free Kick in the corner of the net. Goal
5th Goal, the only one that Vida was responsible for, he takes down Kramaric.
Perhaps you should watch more football.
Hahaha, had an easy time against Vida? You are talking about the strongest team in Croatia, by far. With resources that other clubs wont accumulate in a 100 years! and thats your solace? they had a comfortable time against a club with little to no finances thats going with a youth movement? Dude, thats just sad, if that makes you happy. they should be slamming teams 5-0 every match. Pap and Slepi came from leagues which are both stronger than Croatia. I really dont think we should be waiting for them to adjust when its a step down in their career. They are playing easier sides and far more terrible defenses week in week out, while on the strongest team possible. After all that in their favor, they still have to adjust? Usually players adjust when they go to leagues where the style of play is different or they are better leagues. What ever makes you happy though.
Lastly, Domagoj Vida was a Center Defensive Midfielder last year, osijek only converted him to a CB half way through the year. So, he is still very much a work in progress.
You have your views, I have mine. We both have young players that we rate and we will leave it at that. Otherwise, we will go back and forth it wont get anywhere.
With all due respect Papadopoulos and Slepicka both have a good history which Smrekar, Krizman and Vida can only dream about at this stage in their career. If they become top players at Sparta Prague and Panathanaikos then they'd take that don't you think. Rukavina has nowhere reached Papa level at Panathanaikos yet. Please.. Ziva only doesn't like Papa cos he is Greek and doesn't like Slepi cos he is Czech and hates the wages we pay them. Same with Cernat. He thinks we should be playing some young Croat or if it is a foreigner they have to be real class. He also said he'd rather Dinamo play youngsters and do worse than they are doing, but at same time criticising us.
Of course i'd back them both – they we'ren't even given a chance before Ziva put the boot in. I told him to wait till the winter. Now we see them in the winter and i think Slepi doesn't fit, Papa doesn't fit. They are a long way from home and would be best off in a different league where i am sure another side will get more out of them then we can. I cannot call them bad players though as otherwise they would never have had such a career as they had to date. But also remember Dinamo rips the league apart with these players in their line up. Papa and Slepi had a comfortable time against Vida:)
As for Vrdoljak – i think he is actually close to Croatia's squad anyway regardless of what me or you think. I criticised Vrdoljak early season and also still say he tries his best, but needs to move away to get better. You are doing just the same as me though using something and taking out of context. I think the discussion around the time was about defensive mids and basically about the fact Leko and Pokrivac used to get call up despite not playing. Well at that time you can make a case for Leko and Pokrivac being behind Vrdoljak in the pecking order as Vrdoljak was playing every match.
As i keep saying about Vida, we'll analyse him when he plays for a bigger club. Thus far we can't make a case for Prahic, Maloca and Vida when there teams are in midtable and not winning enough matches. That suggests at present these players are not really even outstanding in HNL1. Also if Vida was outstanding last season, Hajduk 100% would have signed him rather than Smoje or wasted money on Rodic. They'd have used it to buy Vida as Vida would have been an asset for them. Smoje is a player who can't really earn money from as he's too old.
Hyped up Smrekar and Krizman? Yeah, just as you hyped up Pap and Slepicka when Dinamo first signed them. How amny times did Ziva Istina belittle these guys, you would rush to their defense. Just as I will rush to the defense of someone I feel is promising. hell, you called for vrdoljak to be considered a call up for the National team, so, nobody here is perfect, are they? I said Smrekar and krizman were promising players. You continuously take things out of context and then rearrange them to fit your arguments. Smrekar was all of 19 last season? Was called up to the Under 21 side at 18? If I want my club to invest in a young talent. It would definitely be one that can do something like that. Also, yes, I did say Rukavina and Kalinic should have been called for Petric, last year! When both seemed to be playing on a regular basis. If I brought up the argument again this year then my answers would be adjusted to who is actually playing well or playing at the bare minimum at the moment.
Also, I wont comment on something as ridiculous as Vida should have blocked a shot. A description that was taken from watching a Youtube highlight, until I can see the game in its entirety. I will not judge players based on 2-3 min clips. I watch HRT2 Live every weekend for their Saturday and Sunday matches. Live feed off Croatian Satelite. Hajduk and Dinamo are always the preferred games they cover. The Sunday match is always shown in its entirety, while other matches that are shown at the same time have to share coverage, so, you get the HNL panel jumping from game to game whenever something exciting happens. The point of that is, that you will never see Osijek in its entirety unless they play against Hajduk or Dinamo. The point is, NOBODY here watches anyone besides Hajduk and Dinamo on a consistent basis. Some dont even watch those. Therefore, all anyone has seen of this guy has been Youtube 2-3 min clips. Then I have you who doesnt rate him at all, and pretty much every Croatian Journalist I read off Sportnet.hr, Nogometni-Magazin.com, Index.hr, 24sata.hr that all seem to agree that he is the most promising young defender. Does he have to be the top Croatian defender to get called up? No! Why? because as shit as our defense is now, we will have to eventually bite the bullet and look to the future. We will have to nurse some of these youngsters along the way even if they arent the best at the moment, on the basis that they have the most potential and are the better long term solutions.
if i made reference to a goal it would look even worse on Vida. But if you want me too. Dodo who has not scored a goal all year for Zapresic hit an naff shot, Vida should have blocked it – he didn't. Ball went in. That looks like Vida almost pulled out of the block. I'm not gonna go further cos will be making the guy look crap and that's not my point. I think you should stop hyping some of these young guys up. Last season it was Smrekar, Krizman, Rodic and Smoje and they've done nothing thus far. If Osijek's team is so bad which i don't think it is (they just need to stop conceding lots of goals) then Vida should get out of there and transfer in winter. But for me whilst he continues to be at Osijek conceding lots of goals whether it is or isn't his fault its hard to really know how good he is. I'd not take him at Dinamo as its a expensive gamble, but Hajduk should chance on Vida in exchange for money plus Smoje back. Will he even get in there team though ahead of Vejic and Pandza?
Who would you drop for Petric. We always hear people say get rid of this guy or that guy, but never identify a replacement. You, yourself often mention Ruki or Kalinic which is not even a arguement. They are basically doing nothing at club level. Its not about saying Croatian league is not good enough, but the bottom line is you have to be really really class in HNL1 to get in Croatia's squad. Vida is not class in HNL1, he's just promising which makes him good enough for under 21's and not for national side. Anas Sharbini also was class last season, this season he's trying to find his way. But you can make a case for him not being in squad as well.
Basically Vida needs to block out all these mediocre HNL1 sides that score past him. If he can't do that cos of his teammates, then he should transfer. Otherwise he'll never get in national team.
My apologies, I used rio just as an example. I haven't seen the highlight of Eduardo's looping header in awhile. I think it may have been Rio that he beat to that ball.
You are right, I did mention Dario Srna and Petric, Klasnic. I said Dario Srna was not playing anywhere to his ability. I dont think anyone here can dispute that. As for Klasnic and Petric, I said that it would be best if we drop them for a game or two. I want to know who these guys really are that they seem untouchable. Mladen Petric isn't one of the top 20 strikers on this planet. I find it ridiculous to give this guy a pass every time because he scores for HSV. I will keep bringing this up, When Capello took over England, he put the fear of God into all his players. He called up guys like Bullard based solely on his play and said no player will enter the English squad if he doesnt deserve it. This blind loyalty to a guy like Petric who has not had a good game for us in 2 years. Also, the fat that 90 percent of his goals have come against Andorra is laughable. Is he one of our top 6 strikers? Yes. However, to keep on including this guy, of course he will develop complacency. If he never fears that he may be dropped.
The same way you seem to Lump Vida with the entire Osiejk team can easily be compared to those who feel we shouldnt call any player playing in the HNL because the league is shit. Its the same argument. You are judging one based on the collective. Do we do that? No, rational people look at the individual. If you could pick out Vidas play and say, well, on goal number 3 he was no where near the forward, or, the cross came in and he should have beat his man to the header, fine. You make no mention of individual plays, rather one stat. Between 2006 and 2008 in 2 games we scored 5 goals on England. One was a back pass that bounces over the goalies leg, another is a looping header, Olic beats an offside trap, Kranjcar a shot from distance, Petric a shot from distance. 5 Goals that the CB was only involved in once. Also, that sole play that he was involved in, both CBs moved up with the offside trap perfectly, it was the LB (Bridge) who screwed it up. Taking your argument into account then we see 5 goals and blame Rio Ferdinand for all 5.
The only question we need to ask is should Vida be in central defence for Croatia after conceding so many goals at Osijek?
Do Osijek need to tighten up their defensive game?
That is all. I'm not disputing whether Vida, Jugovic, Milicevic, Knezevic are promising players. Purely that this team is hindered by woeful defending. Hopefully they tighten it up. Lets not forget their are more relegation spots this year. For me 16 teams was prob best thing to happen to Croatian football cos most of the sides were never under threat. Finally someone put a rocket up their butt and they are playing for their whole livelihoods. No more of this one team relegated and the rest can take it easy. Its actually a shame its going back to its old structure.
I don't think Stimac intended it this way, but total respect due to the coaches of the promoted sides for how they prepared their sides. Also i think we should send Kramaric over to Lokomotiva just to freak out these sides a little bit more. Varteks gave a good account of themselves yesterday and that team is hugely relegation threatened. Its great news.
What I'm saying is sometimes Radman you say experienced guys should come out of Croatia's squad for these kids and then we actually look at them and he's conceding 7 in two. I mean you mentioned even Croatia's second all time scorer Dario Srna recently as well as Petric and Klasnic. Is Vida a promising young player, yes of course he is. Is he good enough to be in the Under 21's yes of course. Is he ready to be in the Croatian national team. Of course not. That's the point i'm making.
Osijek have been conceding a barrel load of goals which will not help them push up the table if it continues. To say Vida – the actual central defender is not even partly responsible is just wierd. If they concede this many goals then it doesn't matter how many they score at the other end. For me i think at Dinamo we would be best off looking at the defenders who already belong to us and loaned out to Lokomotiva than spending good money on Vida who could flop.
As i say what Vida and Osijek need to do now is blank sheet, blank sheet, blank sheet – next 3 games and am sure then there coach will be happy and you can say Vida – should be in Croatia's squad. After the last fortnight i wouldn;t even bother mentioning him. Hopefully Hajduk Split will sign him and then can take away the blame of saying its the rest of teams fault.
No, Peter, you're right. I can't comment on Vida personally but it's generally impossible to rate a player-either defender or attacker-solely on the scoreline. The questions are not only how were the goals scored/was the defender-in-question responsible but also what did the defender do the rest of the match, how was his reading of the game, positioning etc,. All the scoreline tells me is that Osijek leak goals. There are numerous possible reasons for this that could have nothing to do with Vida's performance.
Lets ask the other people who contribute to this site. Do you guys believe a defensive player is responsible for every goal like DinamoFan is claiming. Or, do you look at each goal on their own and see the build up to the play and the goal to see who is directly responsible for the goal and who else could have done better? Perhaps my idea is just a bit to rational.
You are faulting him for every single goal.
Your argument makes absolutely no sense at all. Listen to the language you use. "I cant make excuses for Vida conceding goals against Zapresic and 5 against Belupo" Did you really just say that? First of all, Vida is not the team. Secondly, as I said before, I am sure a sane and competent coach looking to evealuate young talent takes far more into consideration when determining the value and potential of a young defensive player than just how many goals the team conceded. You look at tape, what he was "Directly" responsible for. What the players capabilites would be like if he played with other top players. You keep mentioning how much Osijek has conceded and have given some kind of blanket judgment to all their players. For all you know goals could have been conceded by corners, free kicks, goalie mistakes, penalties. Plays conceded by other players where Vida himself has his own assignment. Do you think Rafa Benitez came in 2 years ago and really gave a damn how many goals the team gave up? No, because he evaluates every player on their own and doest persecute them based on what the collective has done.
Radman you can't make excuses for Vida conceding goals against Zapresic and 5 against Belupo and a barrel load against Dinamo. There has to be some team he can defend against. Obviously at some point Kovac shone at a tiny team otherwise he'd have never have excelled up the leagues.
Yeah but you've been mentioning him in context of the national team and with that in mind i say we shouldn't sing this guys praises. If his level is under 21's then he is progressing fine, but if we are talking about him coming into Croatia's squad then sorry but not on this seasons displays so far. Its not good enough.
Highlights are irrelevant. If the stats read 7 conceded in two games – i think that's all that matters. A defender playing well and conceding 7 against 2 distinctly average opponents lets not forget opponents missing Vrucina and Juric as well. Vida is doing okay for Under 21 level, but i'm not saying he's gonna be the next anything. He doesn't deserve praise at the last two weekends. Basically its 7 in two. He has to improve on that. He should search for a shut out next week. Clean sheets are his only way the national team.
You cant compare Dinamo with Kovac to Osijek and Vida. Kovac has about 15-16 years of experience on him and a much better team. Put Kovac or Vidic on a young team and I am curious how either does and how many goals would be conceded.
That was in no way meant to shield him from his share of the blame, if blame should be pointed his way. More of an observation and a point that nobody here watches Osijek play, aside from 2-3 minute highlight packages. Therefore, to look at goals conceded by Osijek and claim he should do a better job defending is ridiculous. What about the other 95 percent of the game that's not in these brief highlight packages? If the other CB, the DM, the LB or RB and the Goalie all blow their coverages, do you really expect one guy to mop it up? Hes only one man. Maybe he is responsible for his fair share, maybe he isn't. Point is, nobody knows because nobody on this site watches them play that thoroughly.
Also – "I'm not putting down on the guy, but we shouldn't be singing his praises at all this season"? Really, because the columnists I read on Sportnet.hr that cover every match usually always have nothing but praise for him. Lastly, hes 19, I believe. I dont expect him to be International class yet. If I call him to the National team its so that he can learn from the older players and perhaps their good habits rub off on him.
Cmon Radman, this is kinda blind loyalty to Vida. You can't claim he should be in the national team when he can't even stop HNL1 players from scoring. At times yes a solid centre back can make up for others mistakes. I mean at Dinamo we always seem to improve in defence when Kovac is there. Vida is talented, but he has to be more solid to get in Croatia's squad. At times in HNL1 the defending all round can be feeble. A lot of goals go in which normally they shouldn't do. Yes it is team defending, but Vida is part of that team. Can't just say its not his responsibility. He's the defender and he's meant to be international class. I'm not putting down on the guy, but we shouldn't be singing his praises at all this season.
Jelavic with 2, Poikrivac scores
Not HNL but EPL, sorry, but I saw the Tottenham-Bolton game last night and did Klasnic ever got robbed by the blind official on the line with the offside. The officials in that game were idiots. It was like watching American football (with the oval balls and helmets). Nice goals by Kranjcar and Corluka! If Klasnic started I wonder what the outcome would have been. You can tell Tottenham miss the presence of Modric too.
Football is about "Team defense" there is little Domagoj can do if others blow their assignments.
And Mate Bilic just scored. Knew it wouldn't take him long. Just watching his performance – is crazy he is not a Croatia player. I think Bilic is much better player than Jelavic, but if he really wanted Jelavic he could have let Petric or Klasnic sit it out for a match so he can look at other options. He could have had Bilic and Jelavic in his squad for these matches.
Vida has to stop so many goals going in as that's his first job. Osijek have enough strikers and are scoring at the other end. I think Osijek's keeper is also terrible though.
Jelavic and Pokrivac both scored again today. I'm willing to see what Jelavic does. Maybe he's one of those players that started his career slow and then gets better. I definitely think Jelavic has been fast tracked. There's so many Croat's who did this in Austria – Marijo Maric, Mate Bilic and very consistently Mario Bazina, but it never got them a regular call up. I'd like to see Jelavic get some minutes against Qatar and see what he can do. Regards Pokrivac his fitness and form is now suitable for the national team unlike Leko, however you gotta say he definitely struggled at Monaco and perhaps now he has found his level.
Dujmovic helped Lokomotiv beat Rubin Kazan today. Now moved up to third, not too far away from leaders. I don't need to say anymore about this guy. He should clearly be in the squad, perhaps the team.
I watch Ilicevic play today. One of his less impressive games. He played on left midfield today.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing as I wrote my comment. I still think the squad had enough quality to score more than one goal per game and also not look completely vulnerable at the back.
I am happy with what Osijek is doing. Especially happy to see that Vida got his big frame at the end of some crosses and corners. If he can add that extra dimension to his game, he can possibly be the new Igor Tudor.
Correction – its hard to overpower sides with few clinical forwards.
Hajduk Split don't seem to be going anywhere very fast. I think Reja has found a line up to stop the rot, but not a side that can over power teams. Its also a bit hard to overpower signings with few clinicial forwards and the one he does have is injured. I think its hard to judge Reja and Hajduk until after winter cos the whole staff needs reshaping. Too many creative mids and not enough scorers.
Hajduk are also only beating the teams in the bottom half of the table at the moment. They appear to be having a big struggle with the top 7. It don't seem to me there will be a title race this season. There will be a big fight for Europa Liga places and relegation though. A mighty one..
Apologies for the wording on my report above. I was having a uninspiring day.
Some of the formations that Reja is using really baffle me. They are getting win, but they look terrible and the opposition continues to pound them with pressure. Subasic has saved them for the past few weeks. He was by far the player of the match today. Good work by Vukasic, a bit lucky though. I am sure he will easily claim that goal. However, if he tried to do the same thing again, it would take him 500 attempts before he scores like that again.