For those of you Croatians uninterested by American football, two men of Croatian descent will face off against each other this Sunday in Super Bowl XLVI. New England Patriots head coach, Bill Belichick, has already won three Super Bowls alongside quarterback Tom Brady. His father Steve Belichick (born Stephen Biličić), raised Bill in a football household and was very close to the Croatian community in Pennsylvania. Bill’s paternal grandparents, Ivan Biličić and Marija Barković, emigrated from Karlovac to the United States in 1897.
Bill Belichick has never been reported to have made a trip to Croatia.
However, David Diehl has. The G-men #66 was born and raised in Chicago, Illinois to a Croatian mother and German father. While growing up in Illinois, Diehl frequently spent time at the local Croatian church as well as Croatian clubs in the area. He finally took the leap and visited Croatia for the first time in the summer of 2011. During his short stay in Croatia, Diehl was given a tour of Hajduk’s Poljud Stadion, where he was photographed at midfield wearing Hajduk’s 100th anniversary jersey. Since the visit, Diehl has waved the Hajduk scarf in victory after key Giant wins. As Diehl protects Giants quarterback Eli Manning on Sunday, watch for the huge Grb tattoo he has planted on his left arm. You can’t miss it.
Lots of greased palms.
A good politician is like an innocent man in prison. They all claim to be, but you know it can not be. No matter what country, color, sex or creed most politicians are self serving Cretans.
Yes, there are legitimate deals. But, as been the case many times, when these foreign companies come in and buy croatian companies they usually do so at a deep discount. Not saying this is the case here, but I’ve seen it before where the directors at some of these firms received huge kickbacks (The Mol deal is a perfect example) for allowing the foreign operators in and selling at a lower price.
@Ziva:
I respect your pragmatism. However, many clubs throughout the world are not profitable. The whole idea of a diaspora involved team is moot, until there is interest from Croatians in Croatia.
Germany seems to be the only country that seems to have it all in regards to finances and levels of competition/youth development.
Many foreign corporations buy Croatian companies. For example Thyssen Krupp (an industrial conglomerate comparable to GE) bought the formerly state owned elevator company. German corporations do not invest to lose money so there are “legitimate” deals that transpire.
The NT is doomed if they rely on diaspora children playing for it.
I’m not naive about the level of corruption in Croatia. I know it well and I know it firsthand. I’ve seen mobsters shoot and kill other mobsters in daylight on one of the trgs in Zagreb, not to mention all of the other dealings. I’ve seen foreign investors try to come and open up new business in Croatia only to be stunned at the level of corruption within the local government. They tried and left. We all know this, so this is nothing new.
That is the reason nobody is going to invest in the croatian game. You can’t make a profit on soccer in croatia if you want to run a legit business model within the country.
@Ziva:
Croatia and Croatians did not invent political corruption. Just because the Herzegovina mafia runs Zagreb, it does not mean that business can not get done in Croatia.
I don’t like it and I don’t think it helps, but this is how the world is. Sweden might have less, but Russia and Italy probably have more.
China is super corrupt and there GDP has exploded. New Jersey has had a vast history of major political corruption and it consistently is an economic producer.
Edwin Van Der Sar is 6’6″
One of the best goalies ever.
@Ziva:
Here are the goalkeeper statistics for you. Some GKs are short but most are tall. For example the 20 starting GKs in the EPL are 6’3″ tall.
http://www.ehow.com/facts_7556517_average-goalkeeper-height.html
About Croatian language session, i think the best is to live and learn in Cro for 1 month for example.
I live in France (Paris), and we offer France classes.
Student who come learn French at school during the day, they watch French TV, French radio, speaks French with us etc.
Maybe the best way to learn Croatian language is to travel to Zagreb and have classes during a month? Does some school propose that?
Cheers.
Ziva investing in any football club is pretty crazy from a business stand point, very few if any clubs make any kind of profit. But thats the thing, most of these rich guys who own a football club don’t do it to make money
nice to see some of you posting links for Croatian language lessons.
Congrats to big David! Hopefully, we can line up an interview sometime soon.
@Nate,
Nice link, thanks
@Mihovil,
Thanks for the kind words. That is why we are here.
The height of a GK has no impact of his success. Inserting a 6’6′ GK means nothing. He might be better on the crosses and higher shots, but being taller also means it takes you longer to get down low for a shot.
The people who play basketball are likely not to be good soccer players. One of the main reasons: foot size. Easy to control the ball with a smaller foot. Basketball players have large feet, which means they would be handicapped technically with the ball. Look at the best players in the world, hardly any above 6 ft tall.
We can stop with all the talk about a diaspora owned club. No chance. If you want to buy an exiting club than means you have to take over the existing debt. Then you have to deal with the local corrupt officials in local govt. and corrupt officials with the soccer federation.
Anyone with money who would want invest in Croatian soccer would need to have his head examined and asked WHY. You don’t throw money away.
How about Rijeka? Other than the fact it is an industrial mess, nice Istrian and Dalmatian beaches are not far away.
Here is the link describing how a local NJ club does their overseas travels. Some might find it interesting.
http://www.njsa04.com/home/466849.html
@Ante B:
I am still a bit of a purist in regards to soccer especially with Croatia. IMHO all other sports only divert the precious few Croatian youth away from soccer.
If Croatia was not interested in basketball, we would probably have substantially more / better goalkeepers.
@Ante B:
I nominate you as chairman. I pledge $500 a year in exchange for a jersey.
I busted your balls about the NFL a while back. I watched tonight’s game because of Diehl and I thought the last 10 minutes were good, but still WAY TOO MANY commercials.
CSR has to get a Diehl interview!!!!!!
@Allen:
You are right, Olic is no Joey Barton.
New York Croatia!!!! Svaka cast!!!
Yeh, he’s a bit less profile from what I know. The picture above was perfect. Wht didn’t they add Ninko????
You guys do realize that Rob Ninkovich plays for the Pats also.
FYI, he just sacked the Giants GB.
@Ante B
Zadar has a population of 75,000 and Sibenik has almost 50,000 I believe? Gospić is in the area of 12,000. Is that going to be enough people?
Is Gospić not too mountainous of a region to have a team? What sort of attractions for visitors are do they currently have in place? I don’t ask with any harm or ill intent, I am curious as anything to make the HNL work sounds good to me at the end of the day but I was looking at this more from a business model perspective. Using that logic, why would I invest money in that area? I realize that if you throw money at something you can build or make whatever you want, but I am not sure how the sale negotiations would go down?
Medveščak is in Zagreb, big population draw. The business model is great though agreed!
nice grb shot during the national anthem
Also I’d use Medvescak’s business model but with Croatian players, domestic and diaspora. They seem to have the only Western business plan and have fans coming in drones.
The problem with doing it in Dalmacija is that you’d have to compete with Hajduk, Sibenik and Zadar. I say pick Lika since Gospic would be ideal since Lika has never had a representative in the HNL and a lot of Licani are in the diaspora. In this case I wouldn’t chose Dalmacija. But only when Mamic and Markovic are out.
i don’t mind the guy for blasting Olic. You can talk all about movement and skill but face the facts, Olic scores sitters. It’s nothing impressive, he just gets the job done. Everyone still goes crazy for him but Olic is nothing more than a just decent player. The guy still doesn’t impress me and it says a lot about Croatia’s lack of talent at the striker position when he’s still playing.
@Ante B:
Corruption plagues every gov’t / nation. I am aware of the corruption in Croatia and the HNL.
My local soccer club in NJ takes trips to South America at the expense of its wealthier families. This should be replicable in Croatia.
I can’t see Vukovar, etc.being a great tourist attraction. For me it would have to be in Dalmatia even if not Hajduk. How do all these other clubs do it? Do you think Ireland doesn’t have corruption and criminals?
The fact is Dinamo and Hajduk still have some cache and it is woefully underutilized.
I just did a search online, and I found an article that talks about Luksic investing in Cro and pretty much giving up on the prospect of investing in Hajduk:
http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Biznis/tabid/69/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/151726/Default.aspx
I didn’t know that Davor Luksic now lives in Cro. Not too shabby. Looks like he’s a bigger Hrvat than all of you motherfuckers.
😉
Didn’t that Croatian-Chilean Billionaire, Davor Luksic recently have an interest in acquiring Hajduk last year?
Whatever happened to that?
I mean, if the 27th richest family in the world can’t acquire a rec league team like Hajduk, then nobody can.
The problem with trying to invest into anything that’s Croatian is that it’s already happened. Some rich multimillionaire Croatian from LA tried to buy a film company called Jadran and he said dealing with Croatians in Croatia is a nightmare. The problem that all of you gentle snowflakes have is that you think this world is made of lollipops and sugar drops. Croatian soccer is full of corruption and criminals. In order to change Croatian soccer you have to change Croatian mentality and get rid of all of the criminals that are already in there. Split is a horrible option I would suggest going to other places in Croatia where you can actually do some good like a Lika or Slavonija. No way a diaspora team in the HNL would ever survive under these current conditions.
@ Everyone-
I think we can all agree that knowing the National Anthem and what it means should be mandatory. Here’s how I learned it. (English and Hrvatski translation)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjqgLZ7fZY4
Did anyone see the Bayern-Hamburg game. Our boys all did well.
Son screwed up a perfect pass from Ilicevic. It would have been a typical Petric strike, but he was subbed for Son minutes before.
Olic scored a typical poacher’s goal. The one American GOL TV announcer is horrible. He dismissed Olic’s goal, saying that 90% of players would have scored. That arguement is weak, because 90% of players don’t score those goals. His commentary throughout the game was shit. He seemed almost as bad as most MLS announcers.
The other announcer (whom seems more knowledgeable) seemed to have a non gay man crush on Olic.
Other than Rashad Evans, Carlos Condit is my favorite fighter. A class act and was a deserving winner last night. I went absolutely insane when he won, it kind of reminded me of when Mandzukic scored against Turkey.
I doubt we see OT but it would be pretty cool. This game really doesn’t mean much to me though, my interest is low. If Patriots win cool, Tom Brady is the man that shut up New Yorkers. If the Giants win, I’ll have an excuse to drink and go to the parade. I’ll probably wear something Croatian so maybe David Dehil will notice me. I met him already once but never hurts to meet him again.
I thought Varazdin was owned by fans, does anyone know if it is?
@Ziva:
Dinamo seems to have the best site, but it is still weak. If the HNL was interested in foreign/diaspora $$$, all sites would be in German, English and Croatian.
Ireland and Sweden have shit feeder leagues as well, but there seems to be more fan ownership in those countries.
The Shamrock Rovers site, has lots of opportunities for fan involvement at many levels. If I could get a Hajduk player jersey for 300Euros and sponsor him for a game, I would probably do that once annually.
@Colin: I almost broke down and bought a Dinamo jersey, knowing that they have the best shot of developing Cro talent. I am pretty sure my father would have disowned me.
@Nate: I agree about Pimsleur. Great job with the link.
@ Those attempting to learn the language.
Pimsleur’s discs are a good start. it’s highly repetitive audio that you can listen to in your car on the way to work. You’ll learn how to ask a woman if she’d like a drink with you, and you’ll master the phrase, gdje Jadranska ulitca? It’s pretty basic but it’s a good base.
One of the best ways for me to pick up more of the language is by listening to HR radio. I stream it online while at work.
Glas Hrvatska primarily plays the news. They play it in English at 9am Pacific, so once you know what they’re talking about it’s easier to pick it up when they say it in Croatian. I also write down words that i hear a lot and look them up at the end of the day.
And for all the soccer fans out there, they have commentary on big Euro games. Listened to the Barcelona/Madrid call in Croatian the other day.
http://www.hrt.hr/streamf/DUBROVNIK
There’s an easy drop-down box on that link and you can switch to whatever region you want.
Hope this helps!
Igor Budan with another goal today for Palermo.
@Denis Svirčić
What can someone say about Gospodin Denis Svirčić that has not been said? It is obvious that this person has his srce in the proper place. As I feel “most” Croatians do. Arguably the best post ever on this site. Bravo moj prijatelj!
@mali HRVAT
“I am going to put myself out there personally on this one. I am an Electrical Engineer by education but a Union Elevator Constructor by trade. If anyone in NY/NJ is interested in becoming a skilled tradesman and has the appropriate background, please let me know and maybe I can help you.”
That is an awesome gesture. Good luck!!
@AllenInnovation
Condit won?? I thought he had a chance.
I think you’re right on all counts with your SB evaluation by the way. Any chance we have our first ever overtime SB game?
This one will some of you up even more than the other video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiQPILbtEW0&feature=related
@mali Hrvat…….It’s a nice idea, but you would be throwing your money away at trying to by/run a team in the HNL. Would never work for a number of reasons. Who would actually make the decisions? The league is in shambles and the clubs are barely able to make any profit. No kid wants to play in that league and once they show any sign of development they are gone. If one guy from the outside wants to come in and buy a club, well that is a possibility. Some russian has already done that, but its wasted money. But, trying to have 100-500 people/investors chip in for a team will never happen, unless those same people like throwing their money away.
and yes, the websites for sports team and national teams all blow in croatia. They still don’t understand the power and exposure from the internet. I’ve debated that very point with a few members of the HNS, these clowns are decision makers within the savez, and their responses are what you would expect…..”ma, sta ce nam to” and other wisdom-filled quotes……go to that website and then go look at an MLS team’s website for example……night and day. There is a lack of forward-thinkers in croatian sports.
So anyone catch UFC last night? CARLOS CONDIT!!!
My wife, did the Pimsleur Croatian language CDs. It is a good start for those with limited time or access to a legitimate tutor.
@ Denis:
We should learn to support each other more as a community. It starts with things with helping in language acquisition or even employment assistance.
My wife (a daughter of the American Revolution BTW) helped my cousin’s son get a job in the financial industry because he was Croat.
I am going to put myself out there personally on this one. I am an Electrical Engineer by education but a Union Elevator Constructor by trade. If anyone in NY/NJ is interested in becoming a skilled tradesman and has the appropriate background, please let me know and maybe I can help you.
@ Denis:
Nice. Keep it up.
I applaud Ivo Miljanovich, a Peruvian Croat, living in San Francisco now for wanting to learn Croatian and wanting to one day teach his kids the language. I gave Ivo my only Croatian language book. Are you studying over there Ivo? Test is next week.
For those of you out there that are discouraged or embarrassed: get over yourselves! We are here to help. You have to want it. If you can’t find books or classes online, shoot us an email. We are here to help, not to put you down.
I remember taking a Croatian language class at the Cultural center in San Pedro. In that class of 10 people or so, only 5 were Croatian! There was a Chinese-American that spoke better Croatian than me!
Trust me, do yourself the favor and invest in the language. Invest in yourself.
I need to pick up a Croatian 101 book for Ante 🙂
Wow, where to start.
First, 75 comments on a football post. Let me rephrase myself. 75 comments on an American football post. Who would have thought? The world is not the same it was 10 years ago. The best golfer in the world is black and a German was the best NBA player last year. Maybe a Croat will one day tear up the NFL. All the best to the future Tomas Bradyic.
second, after reading all of your comments, I’ve come to a conclusion that Toronto Croatia said it best:
“it doesn’t matter. How we have to be as a people is a nation of brothers and sisters. I want us to know that we can go to L.A. New York, Melbourne, Toronto etc. and INSTANTLY be able to be friends JUST because of our heritage, and we know that we have each others backs and can have a good time together. Thats what unites us. Thats what makes us stronger. Thats what this website helps to make reality.”
You hit it the nail on the head. Besides covering Croatian sports, Ante and I wanted to unite ALL Croatians around the world. We were sick of growing up in a Croatian community where croatians were always put on the spot on “how croatian” they are. Also, these same people would compete with other fellow croatians in the diaspora.
Croatians in Croatia don’t have this problem and don’t compete with one another over this.
Ultimately, we are all here for the same cause: to support Croatian sports(or just Croatian soccer) and to unite the Croatians around the world.
“Nobody is going to care about ‘how Croatian’ the guy/girl standing beside them in the stands is… all they are going to care about is how loud they are chanting….”U boj, u boj – za narod svoj!””
I agree with this. However, “U boj, u boj za narod svoj” is 7 words that are easily memorized. We as Croatians have to learn the meaning of these words.
I still can’t stress the importance of language. If it wasn’t for my Croatian:
I wouldn’t be able to interview Mate Bulic. Not only was I able to interview Mate, but I was able to relate to Mate. Bulic, Fistonich and I talked about Thompson and a possible tour, croatian sports and Croatians in the diaspora.
I wouldnt be able to sing and “somewhat” understand the national anthem.
I wouldn’t be able to sing songs with hundreds of Croatian fans with the tamburasi after the Croatia-Austria Euro 2008 game.
The list goes on and on.
I am not here to judge, who is a bigger Croatian. Everyone of us has their own unique situation. We all have somewhat of a tie to Croatia.
Language is power. Knowledge is power. Do whatever you can to learn the language. That is a priceless gift that will remain with you the rest of your life.
So instead of spending hundreds of hours looking at football stats, watching Tottenham every weekend, or drinking your weekends away with your boys….. pick up a Croatian language book online. You’ll thank me later.
~Denis “The biggest Croatian in the world” Svircic (sarcastic key)
@mali HRVAT Haha. So, how much does an HNL team go for these days? I just got a new dinamo jersey for my birthday so I like supporting the league, no matter how small of an impact it makes.
I need to comment on this site more. I love these conversations : ) Like Ziva said, “its been slow the last few days in sports, so this is a good conversation piece.”
Getting citizenship and being on the national team because you married a hrvatica is a little too much for me. On the other hand, our defense does need all the help it can get.
I’m still going with a thumbs down on this one.
Russ wants to suit up for the Vatreni
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11898/7480720/Russ-eyes-Croatian-role
By the way, I wanted a Zadar Nogomet jersey and I thought it was difficult to find one when I was in Zadar recently. I found one, but it wasn’t as easy as finding a basketball jersey.
Most HNL team’s websites suck and the players aren’t even getting paid regularly. If Hajduk players are leaving for BS non payment issues, what chance do the rest of the teams have?
their top league. sorry for the constant errors. it is hard too proofread in such small text boxes.
http://www.shamrockrovers.ie/members/club-aims
Check out how the Shamrock Rovers do it in Ireland. Which by the way is a country similar to Croatia with a soccer league that is also very similar.
By similar, I mean a small homogenous Catholc, soccer mad country, that has been forged in hardship, war and emigration. Additionally there top league is also weak and set up to feed bigger markets.
Instead of us buying Bayern, Tottenham or New York Giants
jerseys, we should be voting with our dollars to make the HNL stronger. That would make us all Veliki Hrvati.
@ ante B and Ziva,
it’s your guys’s attitudes that make Croats suck in terms of keeping our culture tight, instead of encouraging, you guys make fun and talk shit, i get why, because ur parents are negative just like mine, but I choose to encourage fellow hrvati to speak and learn the language, not make fun of them when they make a mistake.
@ Mali Hrvat,
I sincerely appreciate that. While everyone in this post is bitching about being Croatian, we’re trying to pool everyone together. Nothing was more beautiful to me than all the checkers in Berlin singing Lijepa Nasa together against Brazil.
Ziva,
You can’t judge people for what they can’t control. If someone is born in NA, Aus and their parents don’t teach them the language growing up but they want to learn the sports, language, culture growing up….then that’s fucken awesome!!!!
Some of us in the diaspora were blessed to be born to parents who were born and raised in CrOatia, making them bi-cultural. (I will touch on this later)
@Mladi
I hope we can make some cash one day do we can give back tithe community. All these ‘Doms’ across the Diaspora suck. Sorry to say it but they are not in touch with the younger generations. Concert participation is down and the 90s nationalism stint is over.
Welcome to the Digital Dom- CroatianSports.com!
@Denis & Ante K: Congratulations on the ESPN gig.
I hope you guys can eventually earn a decent living from this.
If we could get 20000 Croats to invest $250 annually, a team could do well in the HNL.
If this was done with a club like Hajduk, they could advance consistently in the Europa League. We could even promote soccer tourism to Split for the wealthier American soccer fanatics.
@Ante B: Before you get your panties in a bunch. I only mention Split because it is the good combination of soccer and tourist potential.
On a side note: Is Varazdin still fan owned?
What do you guys think about diaspora investing in a club? With all the Croat soccer fans around the world, we could help make a club decent like the Shamrock Rovers.
I thought Prso was choking back emotion.
This whole conversation is ridiculous.
We are all here because we love Croatia, but for economic / political reasons we or our ancestors begrudgingly left our beautiful homeland.
I would love to spend more time in Croatia, but that is not possible. Although, I am not thrilled with everything in America, it has been good to me financially. I would love to live in Croatia, but I would not be able to provide for my family.
IMHO, the best thing I can do as diaspora is stay as connected as possible culturally, vacation there when possible and buy Croatian made goods if possible.
Next time you are in Whole Foods, buy a jar of Croatian sour cherry jam or spring water. Ask your local liquor store for Croatian wine or Maraska/Badel liquor. If they don’t know about it or try to push Italian/Georgian products, explain the difference.
I just read a book “Running Away to Home” about a lady who traces her roots back to Gorski Kotar. She was not a sympathetic character, but the book was a good read.
I am a sucker for these human interest stories about Diehl, etc., but the mere fact that we are talking about the NFL shows that we have been influenced by our new homes.
That anthem was awesome……the funny part is the only two guys who didn’t show any emotion were Prso and Tudor.
Prso, you can expect it because he is a serb.
And Tudor is no surprise….well, because he is your typical splican.
Got goose bumps watching that video….nice!
born and raised in canada and proud of it. I went to Croatian school for 9 years during my youth, attended a Croatian church all my life, can understand the language pretty well, speak it relatively well and write it somewhat well (though my grammar sucks), even though i have yet to visit my parents homeland (my wife and i hope to visit over the next few years).
where does that place me? this debate/argument is nonsense……i love this website not because we are all “100% hrvati” but because we all share a common thread.
i can spot the checkboard shirt from 100 yards and instantly share a connection. i teach at a school where the only 2 people with croatian roots are myself and a down syndrome boy. he cant speak a word of the language but believe me, its damn cool to speak croatian to his folks and have that connection, even though i am a canuck.
i love this site. keep up the great work boys!
@Wallace…..as for you hypothetical question…….no need for me to go up to Belichick or Diehl and tell them anything. I have never heard either one of them call themselves 100% croatian. I think both identify themselves as American with croatian ancestry. And if i did go up to them I would speak to them in croatian and I would bet you a million dollars they would not understand me.
@Nate……by your description you sound like someone who made or has made an attempt to understand the croatian language and culture. Nothing is directed at you. I applaud people like you.
@Ante…..glad somebody understands. I’m not ripping anyone here, just pointing out that for me personally, I take exception when some random claims he is a hrvat because he wears the soccer jersey or thinks the grb is a cool form of art. It’s much more than that. I’m glad you understand.
Do I think this type of conversation of who is “more croatian” is a bit nuts. Sure, but its been slow the last few days in sports, so this is a good conversation piece.
Please don’t disappoint me and tell me that the overwhelming majority of you know the words to Lijepa Nasa and what they actually mean…
Olic, mandzukic and corluka were all rated “top of the match” by goal.com
@ Toronto Croatia,
You hit the spot my friend. Everytime I watch that I start tearing up (and I’m at work right now 🙂 )
Instead of arguing about this stuff 5-6 times a year…there’s an easy test we can put in place to figure out if someone is Croatian.
You tear up during that video=Croatian.
You don’t=you’re not.
Simple is as simple does.
Never fails. Big Joe was holding back the tears.
Here’s my test if you’re a proud Croatian…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nUVjWuOOWs
If watching/hearing that video sends a chill down your spine…you’re Croatian enough for me.
lol @ Stef, I’m in!
Looking at this in another way….In an odd way… this is actually a win-win argument to be having. At least people are arguing who is MORE Croatian because people want to PROVE how proud they are. It could be the other way around where people might be embarassed to say their background.
But who is to even say that someone who was BORN in Croatia, speaks Croatian with Croatian parents may have moved to another country during the war and tried to disassociate themselves with Croatia (becomming a citizen to the new country and wanting to start a new life)….
Would you argue that they are MORE Croatian then someone who WASNT born there, but their heritage is from there and they WANT to be more assosiated with the country? My point is it can be looked at in many different ways.
How I feel about it is….it doesn’t matter. How we have to be as a people is a nation of brothers and sisters. I want us to know that we can go to L.A. New York, Melbourne, Toronto etc. and INSTANTLY be able to be friends JUST because of our heritage, and we know that we have each others backs and can have a good time together. Thats what unites us. Thats what makes us stronger. Thats what this website helps to make reality.
And thats whats going to happen at the Euros. Nobody is going to care about ‘how Croatian’ the guy/girl standing beside them in the stands is… all they are going to care about is how loud they are chanting….”U boj, u boj – za narod svoj!”
I’ll throw my hat into the ring for this discussion.
@Ziva istina- it’s great that you identify yourself so strongly as a Croatian. From the way you talk, I’m guessing you were born there, your parents are both 100% Croatian, you can trace your lineage back over hundreds of years, you still live there now, you own property there, and you have never left Croatia’s borders. Anything less would diminish your Croatian-ness, right? Otherwise, God forbid, there might be people out there that are more Croatian than you.
I guess I’m a half breed. Born in California, my mom is American/English. My parents moved to Seattle so I did not have the convenience of learning the language in the house. I had to resort to putting in actual effort by purchasing cd’s and books to study the language. I have only been there three times. My family owns land there, but unfortunately I can’t afford to have a condo on two continents.
That said, if I had the choice between seeing the US or Croatia winning the World Cup, or anything for that matter, I choose Croatia 10 out of 10 times.
Call me what you want. it’s not going to ruin my fun one bit while I spend a week in Zagreb then go on to watch Croatia play Ireland this summer.
I don’t understand who any of you guys can be against what ziva istina says on this matter. Those of us who get it just get it it unwritten you can even tell by the who you guys type on here who falls under which category. Then again were not defensive about it because we are obviously cut from the same cloth. I get what ziva is saying and I completely agree.
Just an FYI, Diehl actually has two Cro tattoos. The obvious GRB and the word neunistiv (idestructable (loosely translated)) on the inside of his bicep.
Don t forget about the other proud Croat Ninkovic with the Pats…
Finally, Ziva, you must really love these forums, because you really get people going…. If you could add some more humour-that would be GREAT!
Perhaps you could become the Cro-Amera Ricky Gervais?!!:P
Before the Giants played Greenbay in the regular season, the Giants knew even if they lost, they still had destiny in their own hands; the Giants lost. The next week……….
The Giants played Dallas and knew they had to win, otherwise the season was all but over (i.e. a playoff spot was unatainable); the Giants won. The next week………………..
The Giants knew before the game against the Redskins, that even if they lost, destiny was still in their own hands; the Giants lost. The next week………………..
The Giants had to beat the Jets or the season was over; the Giants won. The next week…………….
The last game against Dallas, the Giants had to win or they were out; the Giants won.
Add the three playoff victories, and the Giants are 6-0 in their last 6 must-win games.
@Denis, you said on another board to me: “we know you are for the White race”.
You mean our race, right? Also, it’s not JUST that I’m for our own people (duhh!), I’ve NEVER come here to brag about White achievements or whatever; I’m talking about White-geNOcide. You’re not one of these mommy professor trained Pavlov’s dogs who REFLEXIVELY scream “White supremacist” at anyone who believes White children have as much right to their own countries as Asian children do to their own and African children do to their own? You’re smarter than that, right buddy?
Before the season started the Giants were 25/1 odds to win the Super Bowl. They lost their first game to the Redskins, the next game they BEAT the Rams and were heavily critisized by the media for I guess not winning impressivly enough (even tho they won by two TD’s). The odds actually went up to 40/1….after that….VICTORY!
A dinosaur named Rick Reilly said after that game on TV (ESPN) on the Giants field, that Eli Manning was average and will always be average.
Ziva Istina: “While neither of them can speak or understand the language, its evident Diehl takes more pride in his Croatian roots than Bill, so I”ll be cheering for Giants.
Either way, pretty cool to have two american-croats in the game.”
Ziva Istina: “in my mind if you cant read or write or speak the language at an above-conversational level, then you are low. Again, you should blame your parents for failing you if in fact you would like to be considered a hrvat.”
————————————————————————
Ziva Istina is a walking contradiction.
So Ziva is going to be rooting for the “low” Croatian Diehl over the “lower” Croatian Belichick. And Ziva, please go tell Diehl and Belichick to their faces that they are “low Croatians” and that “their parents failed them”. And tell Diehl he must remove his tattoo.
Guys, don’t worry about it, you’re all White. Ask a stranger to guess your ethnicity, the odds are extremely low they will guess right. Then ask a stranger to guess your race.
@ MelbCro
My post was not meant to offend Bogut. I love the guy and consider him as big a Hrvat as anyone on this planet. I was just using different examples of proud Croats who are percieved by others as having varying degrees of “Croatianhood”. Bogut would be someone like me…born outside Cro, but speaks the language, has a Cro passport, goes back every year, and has parents who are both Croatian. Event though both Bogut and I have all these things going for us, we’re still not born nor raised in Cro. We probably “shouldn’t” be as connected to Cro as some who IS born and raised there…yet here we are still representing. Same goes for Diehl who is half Croat, doesn’t speak the language, and (aside from last year) never went back. Russ is not an ethnic Croat, doesn’t speak the language, but owns a house in Dubrovnik, is married to a Croatian girl, has a pending citizenship, and plans on living there after his career is up.
I don’t hold myself or Bogut to a higher class of Croat than Diehl or Russ…BUT I have a question for you…
What exactly did YOU mean when you questioned me on how I could “classsify Bogut with the likes of Diehl and Russ”?
They are all equally proud of their connection to Croatia, but with you holding Andrew Bogut to a higher standard as being a “bigger Hrvat” than the other two, you have just proven that you too are guilty of doing to them what Croats from Croatia are doing to all of us in the diaspora.
@ Anonymous
I’m from Toronto, and in these past 10 years, most people I have met know what Croatia is. They may not be able to point it out on a map, but if they are into travel or follow sports, odds are that they have heard of them. There’s a big community over here, so most people have probably met a Croat at some point. Nobody thinks we’re Russian over here. Whenever I told someone my name, they would always be interested in where I was from. A lot of girls would like it, as it’s a warm European country that kind of different from the typical immigrant population here, but then again, I’m a good-looking guy so maybe they were just saying those things to get into my pants.
Sorry to hear that you hold Croatia to such a low standard in sports. I didn’t know a country of 4 million had to be a consistent powerhouse in every single sport to get your respect (even though Cro has won medals in recent history in soccer, basketball, skiing, tennis, waterpolo, handball, K-1, etc).
@MelbCro…..that is true, but not the majority of the cases.
Listen guys, this is not me saying that I am a bigger hrvat. Not my intention. A lot of it is what Ivica wrote. We have too many hrvati in the diaspora who will wear a Gotovina, NDH, Ustase, Cro jersey shirt and have no clue what any of that represents. The Italian-America syndrome as I call it. I just think there isa big difference between a wanna-be jersey wearing croat who can’t pinpoint hrvatska on the map to others who know the language and culture.
As the person who posted that the people in cro hate/dislike the diaspora…..I am well aware of that. They would refer to me as an american….and I would refer to them as being factually correct and nothing more. Usually those are the people who bitch and complain about the current situation and long for the days of socialism/communism. That is still the yugo-loving element in our society that needs to be eliminated.
My point Ziva is ones embracing of their culture and pride in the heritage doesn’t automaticaly correlate to having to know the language.
Ivica, how can you classify Bogut with the likes of Diehl and Russ? Bogut is full blooded Hrvat on both sides, and can speak fluent Croatian. I suggest doing a bit of research before making claims like that, and questioning how much of a Hrvat Bogut is.
@ Ivica,
Believe me there’s ur douche bags in hrvatska and outside hrvatska. Second off, wtf are you smoking, I don’t know where you are from, but people don’t know wtf Croatia is. They couldn’t point it out on a map, they couldn’t spell it, they don’t know what language is spoke, they think were russian, give me a break, ur crazy if u think you get respect by saying you Croatian. Second off, out of the the thousands of people I have met in my life, 95% have told me that I’m the only Croatian they have ever met. Were a small balkan country that is associated as being eastern Europe to most. Yea there’s been huge tourism marketing in the media, people finally hearing Croatia, they mention the name in movies now. Some one does not put on the checkers for respect, u guys are acting like were a powerhouse in sports, were not shit compared to italy, germany, england, etc in sports, so it’s not like your cheering fo r the Yankees or New Pats.
Secondly, the dickhead attitude that so many have, who love to make fun of others, I can see how Denis was effected by it, he made a comment that he hoped noone would make fun of his croatian, or ante did or someone did. The point is your never gonna learn it if you dont speak it.
I kind of agree what what both Ziva and Poglavnik are saying, but I’m kind of in the “grey-area” between both of their views.
I agree that it’s nice to see people being fans of Croatia, even if there is barely a connection between them and Cro. Examples are David Diehl, Andrew Bogut and that German footballer, Marco Russ. It’s nice to see people showing their love for a country that they really aren’t expected to be so connected to.
At the same time, I’ve met a ton of douchebag Croats in my life that are so hardcore Croatian, arrogantly wearing Gotovina t-shirts and waving Ustasha flags at any opportunity, yet barely speaking nor ever having set foot in Cro. Here’s an example…When Ante and Denis were collecting donations online to fund that full-page New York Times ad for Gotovina, I sent it to a lot of people (including these “hardcore” Croats). I was not really surprised to see none of their names on the donors list. I even called one of them out, asking why they didn’t donate, and they responded by saying… ” I don’t think my donation will take any years off his sentence so ill keep my money, but if u wanna riot im down”. Typical moron.
Those “bad apples” almost never seem to know anything about the history, culture, or Croatian language, yet they are the fiercest flag wavers. Unfortunately, they’re not flag-waving for Croatia, they’re doing it for themselves. Why? It’s a cool identity to have.
Remember, being Croatian is not like being Indian. There’s a lot of respect that comes your way whenever you tell people your background. The first thing people generally do when I tell them I’m Cro is they compliment me on how beautiful the country is (and how they wish they could go see it), how beautiful the women are, how good Croats seem to be in sports (listing all the athletes they know), how good the food is, how they went to an awesome Cro wedding once, or how huge and/or tough Croats are (there’s always someone who brings up CroCop).
So, naturally, if I’m some arrogant retard who has a Croatian parent, I’m going to milk this as hard as I can, even if I don’t really know anything about or even give a lick about Cro. So it becomes very easy to generalize and call out these people, who don’t know the history or speak the language well, as “frauds”.
Unfortunately, this also isn’t right, and there are a lot of smart, humble and good people out there who, although they don’t speak or know that much about Cro, they still have a lot of love for it and represent it well.
That’s nice that u like to segregate hrvati into different layers, thank God ur only ziva istina, people like you make Croatia weaker, I remember someone before talked about why croatians aren’t like the jews, jews have a very tight network. The reason jews do is because they got there peoples back, they accept you as a jew even if you don’t speak or write hebrew. It would be nice to see all croats unite, I’m sure even the english only speaking one’s have good stuff to contribute to hrvatska, like money, donations, pride, having a diaspora presence, raising national awareness and whatever else. Like I said before, Ziva you like feeling superior, well let me tell you what lost of the hrvati in hrvatska think of the diaspora, they think you an american, so u must be somewhere inbetween on the you layers list, must be hard to swallow knowing ur not in the top layer.
@MelbCro…..no, only conserned about hrvati in this discussion.
Hey, all I am saying is people who can actually read and write croatian and understand the language and culture are in my eyes more croatian than those who do not. Especially those who put on a cro soccer jersey and think they are croatians. This is not a veliki hrvat argument, more so it’s a being a hrvat argument.
I say there are layers or levels of being croatian or croatianism (for a lack of a better word).
from wanna-be hrvati jersey-wearers to pravi hrvati with a bunch in between. Yeah, in my mind if you cant read or write or speak the language at an above-conversational level, then you are low. Again, you should blame your parents for failing you if in fact you would like to be considered a hrvat.
@Anonymous
Thanks man! It felt wrong writing it. 🙂
Well said about this veliki hrvat shit. Anybody willing to claim they’re Croatian are alright with me, and I don’t care how deep your roots are, so long as you’re passionate about your heritage.
Hrvatska is so small that we should welcome all pro-Hrvati.
Poglavnik,
Before Ziva grills u, its seljak for masculine and seljakinja for feminine. Besides that hey if u got Croatian blood and love Croatia and try to keep ur croatianess in tact whether that’s thru this site, thru traveling, or thru going to ur crkva or Dom, then ur doing a good job, this whole veliki hrvat bullshit was propaganda during the war to make the diaspora feel more
meaningful and to get them to donate, which we did, without
the diaspora hrvatska would’ve lacked funds, remember tudjman asked for money, we had enough soldiers to fight. We did the right thing by donating, our family and country needed us, but this whole veliki hrvat has been propagating ever
since.
Ziva the reason I dislike ur comments is because ur a typical seljak, primitive, instead of encouraging u discourage, just like the seljaci who immigrated here. So many Croats have a complex about speaking the language cause there scared to be made fun of by dickheads like u, u make for of ur dad for speaking English, no. To all of u out there, learn the language, practice it, speak it, don’t be scared to, ignore the dickheads like Ziva who make fun of u for not being a veliki hrvat, if he was then he technically should be living in hrvatska. Ah that’s the end of my rant jebiga
Poglavnik,
Before Ziva grills u, its seljak for masculine and seljakinja for feminine. Besides that hey if u got Croatian blood and love Croatia and try to keep ur croatianess in tact whether that’s thru this site, thru traveling, or thru going to ur crkva or Dom, then ur doing a good job, this whole veliki hrvat bullshit was propaganda during the war to make the diaspora feel more meaningful and to get them to donate, which we did, without the diaspora hrvatska would’ve lacked funds, remember tuck tudjman
@Ziva
Saying our parents “failed us” because we might feel slightly more North American is wrong dude. I went to Hrvatska skola, I go to my Hrvatska crkva, and I read and write the language well, but I’ve been living in Canada my whole life.
Can you blame me for feeling a little more Canadian?
Even my mom who came here in the early sixties when she was 17 years old identifies now more with Canada, and she is a hard core celjaka!
@ ziva
Great job on being a part of “uniting Croatians around the world.” You’ve doing the exact opposite and trying to alianate Hrvati.
Just when I thought you’ve reached an all time low…you sure know how to prove me wrong.
I couldn’t disagree more with you statement from a few days ago “every group needs a ziva istina.”
Not this one. Go away. Get off of your computer and do something meaningful.
@ Denis
Enough is enough man. This guy sucks.
So Ziva by your logic all the people in the Republic of ireland aren’t actually Irish because they speak English rather than their native Gaelic tongue. Damn those fake Irishmen! lol
Heritage is blood first and foremost. I do agree that our language is extremly important, but its not the definition of what a Hrvat is.
Sure, it’s nice they claim they are croatian and show some pride in it. But, if you can’t speak or read croatian, then you are not a true hrvat. You can’t tell me some random who identifies himself as having croatian bloodline is more of a hrvat than someone who actually can spot the country on a map and can read/write the language. That reminds me of the Italians in the USA. These greeseballs claim they are Italian but can’t speak a lick of it and have no attachment to the motherland. They put on an italian soccer jersey every four years and they think that makes them a talijan. Same thing here.
I’m not saying that to downgrade anyone. It’s nice to see people claim they are croatian. But, most of these guys are american first and croatian second or third. Some of you guys on this site are the same way. You identify more with being an american/canadian/australian than you do being a croatian. Again, that is not a knock on you, just the way you grew up and in some cases its a good example of how your parents failed you.
Bravo Toronto.
Toronto Cro I’m in Oakville so we should have a beer LOL
Both of my parents were born in Croatia and im from Australia, I can speak croatian pretty fluently but I struggle to read it. Does that make me any less croatian? I think not. I agree with Toronto Croatia, one is not ”more” or ”less” croatian due to where they grew up or how much they speak the language.
I think some people need to lay off of the “how much Croatian do they speak” comments.
I suppose I would agree that someone who speaks and understands Croatian has a lot stronger ties to Croatia but does it reflect any less ‘pride’ if they don’t?
For example, my Nickname has a few meanings. #1. ‘Toronto Croatia’ is a soccer team in the Canadian Professional Soccer League, estabilished 1956.
#2. My father is Canadian (born in Toronto)….my mother is Croatian..,hence ‘Toronto Croatia’ So guys here could argue that I’m not ‘full Croatian’
….yet here I am. My blood bleeds red and white checkers.
My father clearly doesn’t speak Croatian, yet I would go to Croatia and live there almost every summer and see my Grandparents, Uncles, cousins etc. which is where I would learn the language.
However not everyone on the website (or people in North America) did that….yet they are entitled to have just as much pride in their heritage as anyone else.
I hang the Croatian flag in my bedroom with pride. David Diehl has the Croatian tattoo to show his pride.
I don’t criticize anyone for being any ‘more’ or ‘less’ Croatian due to where they grew up or how much of the language they speak.
To me, its all about what they represent. And if they are FOR Croatia, then they can definately have a beer with me anytime.
Out of all of the Croats in the NFL, how many of them do you think actually speak Croatian?
I knew about David Diehl but I had no idea about Bill Belichick.
Even though Diehl is a Hajduk supporter….I’m picking the Giants in this one.
I don’t follow NFL. But, how many Croats are there?
Marcecic
Ninkovic
Diehl
Bilicic (can’t believe how badly his last name was butchered)
Are Grbac and Mandaric still playing? 😉
Giants will win this game most likely. The defense will make less mistakes than the Patriots thanks to better pass rush and more weapons. Brady will get his points but he doesn’t have any deep threats. Patriots secondary is awful and lucky they haven’t played a legit decent quarterback yet (Tebow and Flacco are jokesters). They get burned here and Giants will win, while Diehl goes crazy. I’ll go to parade if they win jut for an excuse to drink. I’ll probably wear a CroatianSports.com shirt to see if he notices me!! I hate the Giants
Patriots got 2 Croatians.. NY has 1.
since I’m a Jets fan…
I’m hoping for a tie.
Ajde Giants lets go Bili I luv David Diehl the guy is a true gentleman and a scholar and a veliki hrvat -U-
Rob Ninkovich, Croat from Chicago
http://bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/view/20101017rob_ninkovich_iron_man_patriots_lbs_family_beams_with_pride
Patriots 2 Giants 1
Majstore,
Dont worry about it and don’t reply. I guess Wallace just wants me to have extra work on the site during the week in erasing his comments after we’ve already had this discussion multiple time.
You bring good stuff when you stay on topic Wallace, but come on man, seriously.
Denis and I bust our asses to keep this site running every day. We don’t get paid for it. We don’t charge. We don’t plan too. We just want the site to be a place where we can all come and talk sports.
Simple as that. Do us all the favor.
Being born and raised in Chicago I’m torn between my city’s ties with Hrvati.
I don’t like Patriots, but I can’t stand the Giants for some reason. Never have. Perhaps my general disdain for most things New York. The only time I’ve cheered for the Giants was when they played the Packers. I do appreciate that Diehl wears the grb on his arm with pride though. Nonetheless I’m a Dinamo fan. Lose the Scarf Diehl.
Go Pats.
@Maro,
I was in New Orleans last summer and had the time of my life. I love that city. I went to Drago’s and it was really good. Quick question-how many Croatians are in the New Orleans area? Do you guys have a church/dom? Let us know. I was shocked when I read about the smaller communities in Denver, Nashville, Kansas City and now New Orleans.
(on another note: Dave Diehl’s scarf makes me almost want to root for the Pats in this one…almost. Terrible scarf. I hope Hoodie rips it up.)
@Ante Kvartuč
http://www.youtube.com/user/chuckachucka2012
LOL!
1. I’m rooting for the commercials. Ferris Buehler 2. Yes please.
2. Need the Giants to win. Who knows what Diehl will pull out of bag of tricks after the game if they win. Last SB he held a Croatian flag with some fans on the field. This season it was the Hajduk scarf. What’s next? A big fuck you to Mamic and Markovic???? One can dream outside the box.
@AllenInnovation
“I’ll be cheering for the thanks of alcohol.”
LOL !!! I concur. Don’t care for either team as well. The less of two evils.
Using the brain Allen, who do you think will win this game?
I’ll be cheering for the thanks of alcohol. Hate both teams, but I do love Tom Brady. Great professional so I guess I’m pulling for Patriots (got a deep hatred for stupid New York fans).
I do not care for Nick Saban. I attended LSU when he was coaching in Baton Rouge, and he was a jerk then…but he was our jerk. We Croatians in New Orleans were very excited about having him here. Now, he is coaching those rednecks, and he has even picked up that retarded Alabama accent. Also, go Giants!
Good call on Nick Saban.
Great coach…..slimeball as a human being.
^^^
Sorry that link above is all mangled this one is better …
http://www.allbusiness.com/science-technology/astronomy-space-space-exploration/15202786-1.html
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ninkovich%20patriots%20croatian&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbostonherald.com%2Fsports%2Ffootball%2Fpatriots%2Fview%2F20101017rob_ninkovich_iron_man_patriots_lbs_family_beams_with_pride&ei=qfsrT7jZEoP0sQLrqJWxDg&usg=AFQjCNHAFSqWFjhXxpi65XQ7tpcob5ig7Q
Hey you guys forgot about Ninkovich on the Pats who is also of Croatian descent. Given that there are 2 on the Pats and 1 on the G-men, I gotta root for the Pats.
croatians on super bowl.. PROUD TO BE CROAT!!!
I met David Diehl at the Croatian picnic, nice guy, really big as well
Belichik is like 3rd generation Croatian, so naturally he will not know too much, but he did acknowledge he was Croatian on a radio interview here in NYC at the time when Saban was coaching the Dolphins. He said something like “it’s not everyday you see two Croatians coaching in the NFL”
According to a billboard at Seattle’s CroatiaFest, Nick Saban is Croatian as well. It would be cool to say the champion coaches for college and NFL football are both Croatian.
That said, David Diehl is a bad ass and has way more pride, so I say go Giants.
Rooting for New England but I am pretty sure the Giants will win they are on a roll similar to 4 years ago.
Off topic.
Croatia Norway June 2nd in Oslo.
http://fotball.aftenposten.no/landslaget/article222753.ece
While neither of them can speak or understand the language, its evident Diehl takes more pride in his Croatian roots than Bill, so I”ll be cheering for Giants.
Either way, pretty cool to have two american-croats in the game.
To quote the announcer from GOL TV. I will be rooting for the Dalmatia Man.
You have to get an interview with Diehl and see if he follows the NT etc.
I will be cheering for the profesor.
I will be cheering for Hajduk on Sunday.