Story and photos by John Doević
This past weekend, I attended my first Hajduk game at Poljud Stadion in Split when they faced off against Croatia Sesvete. I am not a big fan of the HNL nor the team, but I really wanted to experience what it was like sitting with Torcida. As a professional photographer, the visuals Torcida create even during the most meaningless games are amazing and I wanted to be in the middle of it! Also, as a photographer, I have been working on a project creating artistic photography with my iPhone. It’s a project that challenges me to create artistic photography using only a two megapixel “cell phone” camera. Sitting with Torcida during a Hajduk game would offer me a fantastic opportunity for creating the type of visuals that I was hoping to make.
OUR PROTAGONIST LEARNS A VALUABLE LESSON ABOUT TORCIDA ON THIS DAY. THEY HATE COPS AND THEY HATE REPORTERS. TORCIDA THINKS HE’S BOTH!
During the first half, I did not shoot many photos. I basically observed and got into the mood of being in the crowd. Around the 30th minute, the fans set fire to two seats. They burned for about 10 minutes before two fireman with a police officer showed up to extinguish the flames. The police officer jokingly said to the fireman, “Leave one to burn so they can warm themselves.”
During the second half at about the 65th minute, lots of flares were set and cherry bomb type of explosives. I was directly in the middle of Torcida and I was shooting photos as discretely as possible. I made a bunch of photos and a couple that I was really proud of. Nobody in the photos was recognizable mostly because of the massive amount of flares, smoke and movement in the photos.
Then towards the end of the game, which was a 6-0 blowout, dozens of flares and smoke bombs were set. It was an awsome scene, exactly what I was hoping for. Completely amazing. I was not threatened by the fire and smoke, however, a young fan who noticed I was shooting photos with my iPhone came up to me and told me not to shoot. In hopes of minimizing the situation, I said ok, and moved away, up the stairs. I shot a few more photos when the same guy came up to me and again asked me to stop taking photos. His concern was that fans lighting the flares and smoke bombs can be identified by my photos. I argued my point telling him that “nisam tu da jeben nekoga.” (I’m not here to fuck anyone.)
Still he insisted. I moved far away from the scene to the other side of the section and shot some wide shots of the fans with the smoke floating over their heads just as the game was ending, when all of the sudden, three guys approached me including the young fan whom approached me twice before along with a 350 pound dude that was three times my size. They demanded to see my photos, then demanded I erase about 10 of the photos. They also wanted to know where I was from, asked if I was a Croatian citizen and demanded proof, and in the most hypocritical move of the night, demanded to take my photo with his cell phone camera. (The conversation was recorded by the same iPhone as the demands were made. I happened to be recording natural sound of the fans at the game and inadvertanly left the recorder on.)
The thing that makes the least amount of sense in the completely senseless incident where I completely feared for my physical safety is that there are several still and video cameras that exclusively record Torcida’s every move, every moment of the game from the field level. Additionally, police officers are stationed inside the Torcida section of the stadium. I personally feel that if setting fires, flares and smoke bombs was not permitted, then actions would have been taken long before I came along.
I feel the fear that Torcida exhibited about the identification of fans setting fires, flares and smoke bombs is unnessesary as there are obviously no actions being taken to slow them down. There is nobody at the stadium, including the police, who had any interest in busting anyone participating in “fire” activities.
In the end, after experiencing the sound and fury of watching a game deep in the heart of Torcida territory, being engulfed in red fire and smoke, followed by physical and emotional threats, I had gotten exactly what I had come for….not a Hajduk game, but the real experience of soccer hooliganism at the most personal level.
I made a photo that defines the emotion, realism, danger and passion of what is Torcida. I recorded a poignant moment and some thug made me delete it. I’ll do better next time.
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@John Doevic
Nice report, I appreciate you putting your neck on the line for a story. However, you could have seriously been hurt. For all they know, you could have been an undercover cop.
Torcida have had a bad rep the last ten years or so and this is the reason they along with the BBB dont talk to the media.
Also, after they asked you nicely to stop taking pictures you should have stopped. Seriously, you could have been hurt. Croatia doesnt have the same freedoms like in the US.
Dont get me wrong, the report was great, just dont try this again on Torcida or BBB turf.
'I was not out to "bust" anyone or identify anyone or nark anyone out.'
Torcida doesnt know who you are and what are your intentions. No one takes pictures on Sjever. If you are there, then you must follow their rules.
I am with Ziva Istina
'I am no fan of the torcida but they have every right not to let you or anyone else take photos of them.'
@Ante BBB
A little harsh, but we get your point. Easy on the language por favor. Lets not throw stones. Sometimes people are uninformed about Croatian football and their fans.
I agree with you, however, saying 'This idiot deserve a boot to the face' in three separate comments is a little harsh, aj? people make mistakes.
I am confident that John Doeic will think differently the next time he is in this situation.
@TheGoldenChild
You by far made the best point.
'Nobody ever, EVER, should get pummeled for taking pictures at a public event.'
I agree. However, this is Croatia and Split and Torcida. John was asked twice to stop taking pictures and the third time was forced to erase them.
"who has the bigger dick" game with you at the stadium and won
I dont agree with this. Has nothing to do with power. simple rule: No pictures on Sjever!
@Petar Radman
I dont think this is a place for politics.
@Ante
'But this neanderthal attitude needs to stop. It does nothing for them and nothing for the well being of Croatia.'
I agree. However, it is what it is. Sjever is Torcida turf and must follow their rules. Thats just the way it is.
@Slaven
dude, wrong post. I didnt have time to read all the coments under this post until now. I could have used your questions for Stimac. Next time.
@DEMONI ISTRA
I like your sense of humor.
@the real truth
'Ante BBB should not be allowed on this site.'
I dont agree with this comment. Ante is pretty calm and well mannered most of the time. However, he tends to get carried away on the 'rookies' of Croatian football. Both Ante BBB and Ziva Istina let them have it every time. We were all rookies at one point. some of us are here to learn.
Someone's a copycat.
Ante BBB should not be allowed on this site. These brave comments usually come from people who have nothing better to do or think they are alot tougher then what they really are. Its easy to live in America and have a screen name claiming BBB. Its enough of the tough guy comments. NO ONE CARES!
Any true soccer supporter would realize that Croatian soccer will never get anywhere until the fans are able to enjoy the game for what it is…..a sport. Watch any EPL game and you understand what i am saying. Instead of starting fires and riots, fans in other countries are singing and enjoying the sport with their club.
When croatian fans are able to realize this….the topic of our sites wont be about supporters but more about our teams suceeding in Europe. Now doesnt that sound nice?!
Ante BBB its time to shut it and just enjoy the site for what it is….a content provider. No body cares about your ridiclous comments and little knowledge about the game. Its clear from your past comments you have no playing experience….so lets just leave it at that.
I questioned Slepicka cos he is only Sparta Prague standard player. He's a Europa Liga group stage 4th place team standard and no more. We should have known that cos we bypassed Sparta when Slepi was in there team. Was never gonna improve us. Clearly Slepi was brought in cos Mamic wanted to break up the old boys club i.e Mikic, Biscan, Butina, Sokota, Bosko, Drpic brigade who seemed to be too vocal in the club. I only like Slepi from the point that he can sometimes create for others when he don't score. Sometimes he looks good at HNL1 level and after all that's our bread and butter.
However Papa – regardless what you say – i don't even think you predicted that he couldn't score in the Croatian league. I think you said at start of season he would score, but he basically hasn't and that's the worst thing about Papa.
Clearly Mamic have sifened off some of it, but those amounts are so much that it still leaves Dinamo with a sizable sum and i dont think anyone can say Dinamo is not financially secure. I think Dinamo has more than enough money to make a competitive Europa Liga side. We just made the wrong signings that's all. We have no financial concerns at all, its just we can't attract players to the Croatian league.
Personally i still have time for Slepi even though we didn't need him and he is not good enough to take us further to HNL1 title status. I think 9 in 20 is okay i guess, but Papa with his 4 goals in 20 appearances is just poor in anyones book.
It would be nice if Mamic went as all those players were not especially Mamic players. They were all already in youth team or could have been signed regardless of Mamic. Eduardo was also there long time before Mamic. Eduardo was at Dinamo during Sokota's first spell at the club.
I actually think Hajduk also has enough money to reach Europa Liga group stage. The Kali, Gabric and soon to come Ibricic money should make them more than financially stable. There is no excuse for either Dinamo or Hajduk not to be able to compete.
In the summer both were fishing in the free agent pool – lots of rubbish mentioned with respect to both clubs. Hopefully next transfer windows better standard players will come.
this is the biggest misconception out there…..Dinamo is not loaded with money………Mamic is… Yes, the club has more money than Hajduk, but they are not loaded. All those figures you listed did not end up in the dinamo account. Mamic and his agency took a very large portion because of the contrct language with those players. Legally, Mamic had every right to take what he took from those transfers because they were his players.
Slepi and the greek were mistakes from day one….everyone knew it, but dinamo.
Mamic is the bes thing and worst thing for dinamo. I am not sure if you guys are aware of the way mamic came to power….one day when i got some time I will sit and write about the way Mamic came to all his money and power at dinamo
Dinamo is loaded with money. Yeah all these teams earn big money from their fans and then they give us 15m of it for Luka Modric, 10m for Eduardo, 10m for Corluka, 5m for Vukojevic, 3m for Cale, 1m for Mikulic, 2m for Schildenfeld. Its not like we're paupers. We've got money, we either can't get anybody to come to the Croatian league or we have bad people in charge who sign poor standard players like Papa. Financially though we don't have a problem. If it were then we would not be laughing off wasting 3m on Slepi and Papa. Also we'd be banding Morales, Mandzo, Badelj and Lovren's name about to other club, but instead all we're doing is selling one guy Vrdoljak in the winter and thats only cos we have 3 other defensive mids on the books so can afford to cash in.
I've taken plenty of video and pictures from all sides of Poljud while among Torcida during flares being thrown or lit. Goal celebrations, etc. Not once did I ever have a problem. You my friend probably came to the game plain clothed. If your going to be at the game bring a scarf and jersey seriously. It's like going to a black tie event with swimtrunks your obviously going to stand out. I've lived in New York and have perfect Croatian skills so they wouldn't even notice a thing if I had to talk to one of them. Although I do understand things from Torcida's point of view sometimes theystill have to chill out on alot of things that are hurting the club. Dinamo and Hajduk will never be able to compete in the UEFA Cup now "Europa cup" and Champs League as theydid many years ago money is a factor and it's never going to be on our side no matter what. Arsenal charges 100 pounds or more for different types of club memberships and you need one in order to purchase tickets. after that tickets cost you about another 100 pounds sometimes less depends on the team they play. Jersey's are also expensive as is everything else but it's all revenue and with it they build beautiful stadiums, buy world class players and compete at the highest level. Hajduk and dinamo will never be able to because no one would have the money for these sort of tickets and apparel prices in Hrvatska. Not a chance. So no matter what we're stuck like this forever whether we like it or not. I've moved on from them because there is no hope unless the people themselves shape up gethigh paying careers and accept the reality of the situation which if I said this to any of themover there I'd get spit on and cursed out for probably not beaten because I know almost everyone but younever know some people are out of their minds. It's sad and allyou cando is be nostalgic of the days whenthey were good. But as far as Torcida and it's policies go I'm definately not a supporter of it. It's just inhumane and stupid. I understand they feel like some people deserve to get beaten and taught a lesson but that's not the case here. The only time that's the case is when a person acts like a complete jerkoff or like they own everything. Also the recent ideas of a BalkanSoccer League like in basketball is a terrible idea. Crvena Zvezda @ Hajduk Split yeah be my guest everyone is going to die and then what a war will breakout no thanks we've seen what it can do to everyone. Smart idea to make profit and fill up stadiums more often but the clubs will pay for it all in the end through fines and fan bans that prevent club revenue so if they want to bankrupt every team then that's their choice. They pretty much have already.
To All:
I warned our John Doe far in advance about Torcida and what might happen. He took nothing from it.
Whatever…at least you got some nice photo's, although you should've known what was likely to happen- I'm only surprised that you were surprised by their reaction. Rightly or not, you were lucky to leave with your iPhone in one piece(among other things)…
Btw, which iPhone did you use? The first 3g or the newest one with the better camera?
@ Ante BBB,
You're always welcome here. However, if you could please just answer this one question I have: Why do you want people to hate you?
your lucky they didnt brake your iphone…actually i dont think torcida woulda done anything anyways if it came down to it..u shoulda said BOO and watched the torcida run away and play with there lighters
Kvartuc,
You might as well give me three strikes and ban me right away. At least then you will prove to me that you actually have a pair. Your posts up to now do not suggest that.
When you picke discuss the X's and O's about soccer, I stay out of it. But once you touch a subject that's dear to me, there is no way I'm going to keep silent or "tone it down."
This idiot deserve a boot to the face if he ever gets one as do the rest of you who agree with him.
Pitiful.
I don't agree with Torcida's actions, but I do have to agree with their stance. Regardless of why, they are a hot target for police in Croatia and across Europe. Any reason they can use to jail these guys, they will. You can't blame them for saying "No pictures" It's their end essentialy and without Torcida/BBB/Kohorta, our league would pretty much fold. Same thing happens in Toronto with their supporters. It's sad, but police here look for any reason to shut them down, arrest them, etc. For what? I would love to see how police here would handle them.
As for why the league got like this? Simple mis-management of teams and money, and corrupt cancers running clubs. Instead of working on investments and having "Ina Park", or "Karlovacko Stadion", for instance, they have "Kantrida" or "Šubićevac", or "Gradski Stadion". Use investors to name parks, and hopefully it can generate some additional revenue, so clubs don't have to rely on transfers/european play. That's just my 2 cents.
Yeah, I agree 100%, Ante. The hooligans have an over-inflated sense of themselves. It's misguided machismo at its finest. I saw a documentary on Polish hooligans and it was the same thing. The press were bullied for filming them. UEFA sure loves them though. It's great for business, with fines and all. They are the match fixers.
I would ask Stimac about the status of the NT. How it got to this low level? Was it just due to key injuries? Was it due to a lack of discipline and coaching? Would the team benefit more, tactically, by using a coach who used to play an offense position (like Stimac or Suker)? I've seen too many NT games where there clearly was no game plan-just a free-for-all. Or is another Blazevic the key? On a HNL level, how can scouting and player retention improve? More endorsements? AIG paid Man U $100 million for their shitty logo on their shirts.
@ Ante BBB,
Strike 1. Tone down your attitude and your choice of words. We never question your love of game or knowledge, but the arrogance has reached new levels on this one.
This was never a 'jock/bigger boner' issue with me because I know Torcida is going to pull that on their own territory. However, it is a logic issue. They're (Torcida) are claiming that the police are after them so they don't want their faces shown. We all know, including them, that that's horse shit!
Cameras filming the game can easily zoom in and take a peak at their faces. If it was an issue they would wear face masks.
And in this instance a police officer escorted a firefighter up the stands to put the chair fire out. He even made a joke about it.
Dear Torcida,
No one is after you!! We understand that you are bored with your lives and have to act like hotshots during the matches ( BBB as well), but at least give us a more credible reason.
At least make us laugh and say you're vampires or something and that taking a picture would be a waste of time because it wouldn't develop.
These are high school bullies trapped in grown men's bodies.
However, I do love the passion, song singing, and being the loudest firms that Torcida and BBB offer. Who else rivals them in Europe? No one.
But this neanderthal attitude needs to stop. It does nothing for them and nothing for the well being of Croatia.
HAHAHA – Yeah, damn right I said I am a Communist/Socialist. Is that something I have to deny or be ashamed of? Haha. Yeah stupid me for wanting equality and every human being given the right of free education and health care services.
How about we just continue to rape and pillage the planet of all its resources and assume that the planet is just an infinite resource and garbage can. This current model is taking us very far.
Dude, you are a neanderthal, nothing more. All that drivel and propaganda they pump you guys with like CNN, FOX, NBC, CBS and ABC is working beautifully on you.
Ha, I always wondered how Danny Dyer got to film and interview Torcida and BBB for the Real FOotball Factories International. After watching that episode again i realized: He never filmed them doing anything illegal.
Basically the dildo went into a glass house and threw a huge rock. By his own admission, he said he would do it again. He deserves a broken camera and a beatdown. Sadly none of these happened and he still hasn't learned his own lesson. He's preparing another rock for the occasion. Let's take a guess at what would solve this problem.
Please no more "Inside looks" into fan groups.
Also John every game that I have attended at the poljud I have been told by the ticket checkers at the doors NOT to take photos no matter where I sat. I'm gonna take ante bbb's side here.
John I agree completely with you, but ante unfortunately has a point. You're not in the land of the free and home of the brave, you were in their stadium.
@Ante
Nobody ever, EVER, should get pummeled for taking pictures at a public event. Yes, I love the fact that soccer fans are so passionate in Europe compared to here, its beautiful to watch. But at the same time, I think its an absurd display from a human being to threaten someone who is taking pictures at a public event. In my opinion, if you are going to commit an act, of any kind, you should be responsible for the outcome of your actions(therefore letting it be ok for John to take pictures)..Anyways these guys were simply playing the territory "who has the bigger dick" game with you at the stadium and won.
@ John Ya, it was probably not the smartest idea that you went and took pictures at a place that hates reporters..(they obviously made their own assumptions), but it sucks that it has to be that way.
John what you did was extreamly silly. You can still get the torcida experience from the east or west stands. You pushed the boys to the limits and your lucky u didn't deal with the wrong people. For all they could of known, you could have been an undercover cop. Don't mess around on their territory because it essentialy is their stand.
Radman, you of all people should keep your trap shut because while you claim you were at the game in Split, I'm willing to put it all down that you were on istok or zapad. The only part of sjever you've seen is from your computer chair watching the games on Saan or Balkaniyum most likely. If you're normal, just look at your communist roots. Yes, this information was confirmed by a certain someone from the GTA area.
John,
Let me tell you why you should've been pummeled on the spot.
1) You brought a camera to a place that loathes reporters and journalists let alone stranci who are taking pictures of chairs burning, etc. It may have not been your intention but that does not matter. When they saw you taking pictures, they should've smashed your camera in front of you. Lord knows I would have. In fact, I heard one of the guys saying "ma ja takvu kameru vec iman, sta ce mi?"
(Hmm Radman, that reminds me, didn't you say in the past that only the BBB did this at the derby last February? Cat got your tongue?)
2) You kept on taking pictures AND you said you would take more of them which shows that in fact you will not stop. Reason for public beatdown.
3) You considered this 'hooliganism' while clearly it's not. You make me sick. Next time take Radman's cue and head for the non-sjever sections.
You deserve every boot stomp to the face. Leave your camera and awful Croatian language speaking skills where you came from.
You may be asking why am I like this. In 2009 alone, I attended at least 20 games ranging from Dinamo (this includes the derby against Hajduk in Split), Medvescak, RK Zagreb and not once did I take any pictures of anything remotely related to the shit you shot. Why? Because I know my place. I could have if I wanted to. No cameras during the game! I took some brief pictures of my crew and I before the game and that was it. What happens on the tribine, stays on the tribine.
Clearly a lesson you have not learned yet.
John, John, John, silly boy. You are assuming that Ante BBB is normal. Just read his posts, that should clarify everything.
@ Ante BBB this is John…. just to clarify…you think I should be beat down because I used a cell phone camera to shoot photos of the experience of being in the Torcida crowd. I was very aware that I should not create photos that identify anybody, nor is anybody here identified. I would like to ask where you see the problem? The game is a public event. I was at a public stadium, I purchased a seat like everyone else. I was not out to "bust" anyone or identify anyone or nark anyone out. I wasn't even there to "report" nor would have I submitted anything to CSR, until the circumstances got so ridiculous that it obviously became a story of interest. I did no harm to anyone, so why would a normal human being want to call for a "public beatdown"
John,
It's a shame that they didn't smash your fucking head in with that camera. What the hell is the matter with you? Next time I can only hope you catch a beating and are thrown into the riva for a public beatdown.
Again, I'm the only man alone on this one and think another report of this nature only serves for those of you who have never been to a game to get off.
NO CAMERAS IN SJEVER PICKA VAM LIJEPA MATERINA! NO MORE REPORTS LIKE THIS EITHER!
@ John Doević
This totally blew me away. It was especially unnerving to hear the Torcida members basically impose their will on you to delete the photos. Despite losing the photos, this was a really great report to read! I think i speak for everyone when i say we are looking forward to your next report.
No worries. yes you're right, it's not a 3 year ban, but if you throw in all the incidents that happened before that just from the past year (Prague, Amsterdam), the fact they were already on UEFA Probation. Another incident this year in Amsterdam, Timisoara. Forgive me on this, but is our government doing anything to try to stop this? Our fans don't exactly have the best reputation for fan behaviour.
And yes, I know about the Anti-Mamic faction within BBB that want Dinamo out of Europe, thinking it may get rid of him since he probably won't be able to buy/sell players.
sorry i worded that wrong. meant to say Udinese match was regards throwing flares i believe. That's not a 3 year ban. no way! Regards climbing fences and falling on their arse isn't that behaviour that goes on each night in cities. So they got rushed to hospital. its there own damn fault. That's no 3 year ban behaviour either, but the death of the Toulouse fan certainly is.
Also at Dinamo there is a anti Mamic section that want to hurt him. There are different types of dinamo fans. can't punish the whole cos of the minority.
1) Dinamo threw the flares that stopped the match and nearly got it postponed.
2) BBB were climbing the fences (In fact one or two fell down and had to be rushed to hospital)
3) They did the same thing vs a friendly with Steaua Bucharest (Flares, pitch invasion)
Partizan got a 1yr ban for their crap in Mostar in 2007, but yes so far have been no repercussions for their actions in the death of a Toulouse supporter.
Udinese was throwing flares i believe. Nobody murdered. I believe there has been people murdered associated to other clubs. where's there 3 year ban? 1 year is fine.
The thing is, this is not Dinamo's first incident, they are repeat offenders of this (flares, fights, match stoppages etc). Hence the reason for the 3 year ban (They've faced fines, point deductions, and they were already on probation for the match vs Udinese)
UEFA believes if the Croatian government is not going to step in and fix this, then they will have to.
But yes, like ziva said, they have a right to determine what type of media is allowed. I imagine the pictures taken by fan sites (torcida.org) are all controlled so that no one is identified. (To my best understanding)
i mention Henry tongue in cheek as their is a popular view that if needed France could pull a stunt like that to get through and maybe the ref was perhaps made aware to turn a blind eye. Having a Frenchmen like Platini in charge also does not help matters. However UEFA's been so quiet on the matter that there defo appears collusion between France and UEFA. Also what was with the seedings. Why couldn't they all play it out against each other considering they all finished second on merit.
With regards Dinamo they should just say do it again and we'll kick you out of next seasons tournament and out the competition they are in. I think thats even something they could carry through. But 3 years is like some individual talking off the top of his head. That is nowhere near justifed for the supposed crime that occured. You can compare UEFA's ruling to like how the Hague tackle people accused of mass murder. Basically they don't just study every crime ever commitment. They try to convict based on one or two crimes. This is what you call making something managable and which you can later see through. 3 years is just like some random punishment. 1 year ban is achievable, but any 3 year ban will be met with a appeal cos it aims to rip a football club to shreads.
Regards the match fixing allegations. Simply ban all betting on sport and the situation ends. Anyone associated with underground betting will lead to an extremely tarnished reputation. However there is so much betting associated to sport and this is the authorities. They even have sponsors for the betting industry. What do they expect?
I agree UEFA and FIFA are inconsistent, but what can FIFA really do to Henry. its the refs job to catch the handball. to me its no different than a defender pulling on a forwards shirt…its only a foul if the ref sees and calls it.
I believe it was Haisel and the murder call it manslaughter if you may of Juve supporters by Liverpool fans when that wall collapsed that caused the ban. Hillsborough was more really due to bad stewarding and policing as too many people were put a small space causing a stampede and basically everyone knows the rest. Haysel though was disgusting and Croatia has not yet reached that level.
3 year ban is unjustifed. Lets start with 1 year ban. this year UEFA has gone stupid. They either do nothing as in the case of Henry or they come out with the strictest policy possible. There is no middle ground with them. The kind of disturbances we seen are not equal to 3 years. As i'm aware nobody was really hurt in these incidents. Its like throwing flairs on pitch. Is it really a 3 year offence. I think if they just said one year thats fair and would be justified in carrying it through if another incident occured. But 3 years – where did they get that idea.
this, what you described, is not hooliganism…not even close. You should attend a big game and see what they can really do.
I am no fan of the torcida but they have every right not to let you or anyone else take photos of them.
Props to "John" for providing us with this coverage..
If you guys are familiar with "The Football Factories" this piece is right up there with that if not better.
Yes, I am a proud Hajduk supporter, but seriously, what has happened with the BBB and the potential 3 year ban will happen to Torcida if this shit doesn't stop. The Splitska Policija should be ashamed of themselves for letting this behavior continue for all of these years.
Is it going to take an incident like Hillsborough where over 90 people were killed and English clubs were banned from european competition for 5 years for these shananagans to stop? I hope not. Can for once a game not be interrupted because of flares or unruley behavior from the stands?
The quality of the players may not be much, but whatever left is diminished because of these "people."
Hi it's John Doevic….yes we simply walked up to the ticketbooth minutes before the game and asked for the "North" section or section "K"
good story. can anyone get tickets where you were?