Photo: DailyMail
Ivica Olić clearly has enough in the tank to push Croatia through Euro 2012; and may even be around for the 2014 World Cup in Brazil, but how will the 32 year-old Croatian striker be remembered when his playing days are done and over with? In a recent discussion with CroatianSports.com insiders, a decision to whether Ivica Olić will be remembered as a Croatian legend could not be reached by the group. What Olić lacks in skill, he makes up for in hustle. The man doesn’t stop running until the game’s final whistle. But is effort all it takes to become a legend?
Ivica Olić has scored 15 goals in 76 appearances for Croatia since his first game in 2002. That means Olić has only averaged 1.5 goals per year for Croatia, and remember, he’s a striker. However, he has scored some memorable ones:
Olić equalizes vs. Italy in 2002 World Cup, can’t put jersey back on
Olić puts Croatia up 2-0 at Wembley on their way to Euro 2008
Olić has never been the most graceful player and has earned the name ‘Mr. Right Place, Right Time’ in the process, but that has to count for something, right?. The man always finds himself in front of the net, not where the ball was, but where the ball will be. Sure, he might have to take a second look (Wembley) to make sure his breakaway shot is on target for goal, but that’s the charm that comes along with Ivica Olić. You love to hate him but we will all miss him when he’s finally gone. How much longer can Olić give us?
Olić taps in vs. Germany at EURO 2008 (1:25)
Jedan Nulaaaa! Jedan Nula! Ivica Olić! Druga Minutaaaaaa…!
Croatian legends are few and far between. Only Davor Šuker, Zvonimir Boban, Niko Kovač and Robert Kovač can be considered first ballot Croatian ‘hall of famers’. But where does that put the likes Dario Šimic, Robert Prosinečki, Zvonimir Soldo, Slaven Bilić, Igor Štimac, Goran Vlaović, Mario Stanić and Alen Bokšić? What kind of recognition should Eduardo receive for putting Croatia on his back during Euro 2008 qualifying?- scoring 10 goals for the Vatreni in 12 games, including six game-winners and a hat trick vs. Israel.
Most importantly, where does Ivica Olić stand?
@Allen:
Kako vam se svida te jabuke?
Sorry, I don’t have a Croatian keyboard on my MacBook.
On a positive note:
Jelavic looks hungry. Everton’s style of play is physically grueling for Center Forwards. Kalinic didn’t exactly thrive at Blackburn with similar long ball tactics.
Jelavic seems to be cut from a different cloth and is a great long ball target. Croatia doesn’t play that style, but he definitely brings something different to the table.
Once again, Killer is lethal in the box.
Olic would be great at the Seattle Sounders, because they don’t need him to sell tickets.
Nice goal
Jelavic scores his first goal for Everton.
@Denis
I know your pyramid was a best players list not a legends list.
I didnt get the two confused. And here is my proof.
You wrote this:
““Prosinecki (most technically gifted player ever to put on our kit)”
“I agree with that statement. There was no one that had ball control like Robbie. He just missed my cut as “Elite”
That is why i wrote this, read it carefully:
“@Denis S
How can you agree that prosinecki is the most talented player to ever wear the checks and then have him just miss out in your “Elite” catergorey.
This just doesnt make sense to me?”
If you dont believe i wrote this just scroll up and see for yourself.
I never mentioned it was a legends list. I just called him that.
You did say that he was the most talented to play for croatia.
But he did not make your best players list. It just perplexed me a bit thats all.
Oh and fabio grosso will be remembered as a legend in years to come. Trust me.
He might have been a villian against australia with the flop. (i felt like murdering him at that moment) but they did progress as a result. And you forgot about the goal he scored against germany.
He is the main reason they hold that world cup, you cant deny that.
I believe he had one hell of a world cup for a defender, amazing if you ask me.
@Denis
You are right, it was irrelevant to the convo at hand. It was a impulsive hotheaded response on my part, and i shouldve known better. Its just that ive seen many pictures of him in his red star years and their triumph in CL, with all the players surrounding their title throwing up the pitch fork, bar him. So i personally hadnt seen one of him, and i was just a little curious if there was any to tell you the truth. Well there obviously was, and i left myself open and found out the hard way.
But your’e right it wasnt the time or the place to tempt someone to prove me wrong. And it wasnt going to change my opionion of him. The guy was freakishly talented and a legend for our national side, well at least i think so.
And i dont mind a little roasting now and then, keeps me on my toes.
Klasnic just scored! i’ll get back to watching the bolton v qpr game.
ciao.
What a bad day for NT players in bundesliga…
Olic, pranjic, santini, jajalo, mijatovic, cale all on the bench…
ONLY mandzukic starting!!!
@Mali Hrvat,
Thanks for explaining your name haha.
“Debbie Downer”
some girl gave me shit a few months back for using this term. Good, I feel better about myself now that there are 2 of us.
@Pintar,
Yes, Croatians are having problems with our “friendly neighbors to the north as well.
@Ante B,
Italians are hairy too.
@Slavonac,
damn thats a hell of a family history. I’m not surprised that no one has given you shit about serbian blood because its not an issue. You’ve made it clear that you are Croatian and more importantly, you made it clear through your comments that you are a veliki čovjek.
As far as Prosinecki, well then he is considered a Yugo in your book. Robbie will never be 100% croatian. Its impossible. If so, then he will shit on his mom and that entire family branch. I feel sorry for Robbie and what he was born into.
“mi smo svi isti…and I get this feeling that Prosinecki is more and more”
You are probably right. Most people of mixed ethnic backgrounds would like it to be this way too. example..Sasha Vujacic(half Slovenian/half Serb) wearing a Yugo shirt to Lakers championship parade.
@Shinobi,
I would label fabio grosso with the “hero” tag instead of “legend” tag. I can’t call him an Italian legend for a flop against Australia and a penalty kick. However, he did have a great WC, just not a legendary WC.
My pyramid list is not a Croatian legends list, but a Croatian best players list. For me the only two Croatian legends are Boban and Suker. Prosinecki is the most talented Croatian player ever, however, he hasn’t done as much as Suker and Boban for Croatia. So I cant put him on the same pedestal as SUker and Boban, but I wouldn’t object if someone did.
Why did you ask to see the 3 prsta picture if it is irrelevant to the conversation? For me its irrelevant. Prosinecki is a serb and a croat. Robbie seems respectful to both sides. If Robbie has cetnik ties, than his entire record should come with an asterisk *scored by Cetnik traitor. Stick to your original argument and don’t ask for something that won’t change your reasoning to begin with. Gets you in trouble, especially on this site. You misspell one word and some people roast you.
@Dalmatinac,
Congrats!
You better email us some pictures/videos/reports…
Shoot me an email: denis@croatiansports.com
“Guys come on its all about respect”
I agree. Well said!
@HNK:
How much did the ticket cost?
I agree. It doesn’t make sense for him to come to the states if he can still play regularly in the Bundesliga.
My wishful thinking is selfish, because I want something to watch in the offseason. I would definitely watch any MLS game with either Olic or Petric playing.
@ mali HRVAT
No problem! It will bring back quite some memories if this happens, but Vfl Wolfsburg is more likely for Olic due to close proximity. MLS would be cool though.
@Mainzfeldski:
Thanks for the link. Olic would be great for MLS and the Sounders. Realistically, his NT career will probably come to an end after these Euros, so an MLS contract wouldn’t be the worst deal.
Imagine Petric and Olic sign deals @ the same club and reform their Petrolic partnership from Hamburg.
I don’t care who wins as long as Jelavic and Modric and/or Kranjcar play well and don’t get hurt.
Allen you are real Debbie Downer sometimes.
I know I heard a couple of times that Goal.com is not a 100% valid source, but I found a link on MLS interest for Olic.
http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/69/transfer-zone/2012/03/09/2957192/sources-major-league-soccer-teams-are-interested-in-stephen
I’m hoping Jelavic starts tomorrow but he will probably do nothing tomorrow. Spurs need a win tmw and I hope they get it. I’m going to miss it but hopefully they get a much needed 3 points.
@Slavonac Re: Serb Names;
I know people who were given Yugo friendly names or nicknames to escape harassment. My father’s name is Tomislav, but was not called that for fear of reprisals from Yugo ass sniffers.
On a positive note:
I can’t wait for the Everton-Tottenham game tomorrow.
FYI It is on FoxSoccrr at 12:30PM EST
I am rooting for Jelavic.
@ slavonac boli te kurac sto drugi kaze glavno da ti znas tko si i sto si svi drugi mogu ti samo kurac pusiti that how i am in life my greatgrandparents were born when zadar was austria hungry and mt grandparents were born when zadar was italy does that make me italian austrian Hell nooooo, zato kurve piva janjetine i vuco i hajduk!
Anonymous…i get it…and you’re right…everyone’s life can be picked apart…quite honestly I think we do it a lot to each other…i mentioned earlier today “My blood lines…my father 100% Slavonac…my mother 50% Lika 50% Serb! she was raised Catholic as were we. I’m not embarassed by it I am open about it. my mother was raised in Macedonia and in her early teens moved to Slavonija. I dont have any family in serbia but if I did I’d say it…I know who I am and who we are. all my family today live in Croatia and Sweden from both sides…I have never seen the inside of a serbian church nor has my mother. she was raised very catholic…my cousins from her side live in Split…my guy cousin served in Cavoglave for HVO and my girl cousin teaches Croatian art history also in Split! my fathers side were historically Slavonci but I’m sure there must be German blood…my dads family were proud Ustase…and some paid a heavy price for it even after the war ended!”
…quite honestly I’m surprised as of yet nobody has thrown a dig at me…everyone here in Canada knows my family and me and in my whole life there has been one MF who has ever called me a Serb because my mother is half…and let me tell you how many people were quick to jump in and react…but on this site you just never know…people can say what they want…true or not but it can be degrading!
@ Ante B
Bingo.
@ Slavonac
Sorry, but I hope yopu get it.
If is not name, it is music; if is not your grama they will find something else to give them right to call somebody a Yugo; it will be spelling…..anything…………
I’m just tired of all of these “my ****** doesn’t stink” people here. I know if we look hard enough, we can find something on them that we can call them a Yugo. But I do not want to. I just wish that we can be happy after so much blood we finly have our country.
Ante…I’m gonna have to teach you a lesson on diplomacy…which is actually scary since I’m not the most diplomatic guy…we need to be easier on each other here and less judgemental…like I mentioned to ziva the other day…people mean well!
Haha loser wrote CroatiOn. Ziva and Slavonac, guys, we’re Croations. For the record, I’m a short, fat, hairy Turk looking motherf-er so in anonymous’s rant, I guess I’m not CroatiOn either. I’ll stick with being Croatian.
Guys come on its all about respect, if a guy is a pravoslavac and he live in croatia and respects croatia and say he a croatian pravoslavac and doesnt have anything to do with serbia are you gonna call him a serb even if all his life he lived in croatia and all his friends are from croatia?
There nothing wrong with colic hes better than bulic! VUCO ZA PRESJEDNIKA ODMA!
my reference to names had to do with all the Yugo name calling…my point was…so many people consider themselves to be big hrvat…so when you go deeper and meet who they are and where they come from sometimes you are surprised to see some interesting things…if they are such big hrvati in canada and US then why do their families have such close ties to Serb names…thats all I was saying! i think its an honest and a fair statement!
What the hell are you talking about. I didn’t mention anything about names.
I’m the uniter, brother. I’m all for Croatian unity as long as those croatians are good family oriented, church-going hrvati. I don’t want or need the the jugo-nostalgia lovers. If that means we get divided along the way, then let it be.
To all you jugo-loving, Zdravko Colic-listening fools, have a good weekend.
Anonymous…you’re including me in your rant? you’ve got to be kidding me!
@ Slavonac, Ziva and rest of you mighty, judging perfect Hrvati
You didn’t just bring the names topic.
Sorry that we can not all behave perfectly, by the rules of mighty few on this site. If you want a little competition, let me throw one in here just because you made me feel that being mean is the way to be:
I read that when Croatians were traced all the way to the location of today’s Iran, they also mentioned that Croat was back then TALL, SKINNY, BLONDE and BLUE EYES. Sorry, who ever doesn’t fit this description, YOU ARE NOT CROATIONS. I do not care about your rules, by my rule, if you are brown eyed, fat, or short you are mixed bag of ***** . Take that.
I’m sick and tired of your attitude. You will never stop, and because of people like you, Croatian people will never be united; you will always find something wrong with the person, even if is the first name. Just so you can feel superior. In my eyes, you are never superior and I do NOT want to be in the same group with you and your with NAZADNI BALKANSKI way of thinking.
One more thing: A person can negate there fathers or mothers and even if they have a blood transfusion, they can not change their genes. I respect them more if they ackowledge them. If they easily sold their parents, what do you think your price would be?
i got ticket to poland for euro today and it for the italy game yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
@Slavonac…..all valid points you make.
@ante b……I don’t think Jugoplastika was nearly as good as Cibona in the mid-80’s when Petrovic left Sibenik or what Jugoplastika/POP 84 became in the late 80s. So, that probably made the decision for Petrovic easier, if there was a decision to be made. I think in the mid-80s the other good basketball team was Zadar. They even won the league title one year (may have been with Vrankovic).
@Ziva – I can tell you from what I know and what my father pointed out to me….many…and I mean many Croatians were Yugo’s and party members…but it wasn’t his place to point them out…and oddly enough, many of them are the ones who pretend to be the biggest Hrvati today! something I also wanted to say is…I have some great Croatian friends and we’ve been friends for well over 25 years. while I was in Hrvatska I visited them and their family members on the more…here’s the interesting thing that mind fucked me…soo many of their aunts, uncles, cousins…had Serbian first names…I had never seen that in my life…and like I was saying…many of their family members here in Canada are perceived as HUGE HRVATI…it wasn’t just their families…go to Zadar and the okolice…same in Makarska, and Primosten…its kinda funny to learn things about people when they behave as if they are apalled by anything Serbian…so why the fuck did you name your kid Sasa or Desa?
Correction DeltaBravo,
I was born there and remember the days of the 80s at the Dom on the north and going down to Princeton constantly. Those were the hardcore days. Which is why I was shocked that the bands have an agreement to not play “political songs.” I’m down for a beating.
This cat ante b doesnt stop with the jugo bullshit.
@Shinobi
I feel you man, he said that type shit about my people of CHI
I too didnt appreciate.
Flakes like him deserve a good ass whooping.
Ziva,
On a related note, why do you think Drazen picked Cibona over Jugoplastika? You think his brother had a huge role in it or what? Jugoplastika at that time was no joke either, especially when Kuki and Dino played.
@Slavonac…… one more think to consider when internally debating Prosinecki and comparing him and his background to Petrovic. Petrovic’s home town of Sibenik was attacked during the war by the serbs. That helped him make up his mind in case there was any doubt.
Prosinecki was/is someone who prefers the jugo days. For some people those days were ideal. It was less about religion and ethnic affiliation. If people didn’t have pride in being a hrvat then jugo was for them. For those who wanted to voice their “hrvatstvo”, jugo and everything it stood for was a problem.
This all goes back to a discussion we had a few weeks ago. That is the reason I never or my caca never supported jugo athletic teams in any competition. No matter how many hrvati were on the 82 or 90 WC teams or how many hrvati competed in the Olympics, I never rooted or because of my young age understtod why people would root for them because cheering for them was an admission of support for that system.
ok…I know the Yugo thing hurts…i think if I remember correctly both him and Ziva accused me of that…but Ante and I worked things out…we all know our fathers and their friends were kinda explosive and sensitive about political topics…so I guess Ante is like them…and so are many…I consider it a little rough but better than being too flexible also! I’m not the kinda guy who can sit with people at a table (Yugo’s/Serbs) and say zivjeli…mi smo svi isti…and I get this feeling that Prosinecki is more and more…so Ante is 10 steps ahead of me…if he smells compassion for what he considers to be a pro Serb comment…he loses it…jebiga Shinobi…i dont have to like it but thats the way it is…he still makes good and honest comments that I agree with for the most part..we cant agree on everything!
My first comment
“@Ante B
Lay off the yugo stuff will ya.
You should be proud that a player of his calibre played for our national team.
Prosinecki did more for croatia in one minute than you could do in a life time.”
Your first comment to me
” Comment was pretty bush league Shinobi. One more and I’m gonna have to ask for my ninja stars and nun chucks back.”
Thats dissrespectful in any one book
And i didnt appreciate it.
@Slavonac from Canada
I know who are the good ones and who are the jerks on this site.
Ive been tuning in for the past three and a half years.
to be honest i didnt think he was all that bad at he begining,
But if god forbid someone has a different opinion then his, he is know to belittle them or call them yugo.
Thats not a good guy if tou ask me.
Not with that type of faux pas. It’s a lesson. If you’re going to call me out on bullshit, be prepared for an answer. Look at the convo and who threw the first insult. Go ahead. I just ask you read the entire thing first.
@Shinobi – Ante B did a similar thing to me quite a while back…but in all honesty, he’s one of the good ones here…maybe he has the temper of a Hercegovac…but he definitely has all the right intentions!
@Ante B – dude…you should take it a little easy on people sometimes too…I think most people here feel just as equal as the next guy…Shinobi seems to be a good guy and he really hasn’t shit the bed on any of his comments…don’t you think he deserves a little slack?
Hey Bukkake,
Read the message. You said the first insult and I never back down.
You know the saying: First the worst, second the _____ Go ahead. You can answer it.
Finally you were given two pictures and served a cold glass of shut the fuck up. Now take a drink and let the big boys talk.
@pintar
Read the message before that one.
Where he made some attempt to dissrespect me.
So i had the vibe of calling him schmuck by that point, Im sure you wouldnt have liked it either.
All i said to him was that prosinecki has done more for croatia than he could do in a life time (which is true)
Let me get this straight, i would never insult anyone unless they do it to me first.
hahaha…well…until yesterday I highly doubted Robi’s dedication to Hrvatska…I always thought it was a no brainer that he had been dedicated whole heartedly just as Drazen Petrovic was…now…I’m not so sure! I’m gonna do more research on this topic, I think you cant flip flop…you either are or youre not…or you will be considered a Yugo!
@Shinobi
I’m not equating the pic(s) to what he’s done for the NT either, and I understood what you were saying. But let’s be honest. You didn’t just say “I’ve never seen one, can you enlighten me?” You called Ante B a shmuck and suggested he was fantasizing. (He’s since called you worse)
What the hell is american ninja porn, anyway?
@Pintar
I said i have never seen a pic of him doing that, which i hadnt until now.
But that gesture doesnt erase the things he has done for the sport of croatia and that wont ever change the way i see him.
The man is a legend and to deny it is wrong.
I dont like to see this and what it stands for, but i personally dont know how he feels because im not of half cro half serb backround like prosinecki.
All i know is he played for croatia, and i respect him for that and what he did on the field.
@Ante second
Where are you from? shitheel! Lay of the attempt at comedy because it aint working for you.
Stop acting like a 11 year old.
Alright you dont like him, and i see him as a legend.
Lets just agree to dissagree.
Agreed but dude talks like he enjoys Cream of Sum Yung Guy.
Hey, American Ninja porn aint all bad…….
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1jXE6OonSLw/TQBHGZBtsgI/AAAAAAAABCc/QeY4Lq-kzkc/s1600/prosinecki%2Btri%2Bprsta.jpg
There’s your legend as a player numb nuts. Go back to jerking off to American Ninja porn.
Ah the power of the Internet. Shinobi, you have some ‘splaining to do.
here you go!
http://www.vijesti.ba/sport/41521-Prosinecki-Nisam-Srbin-pozdravljam-tri-prsta.html
@Ante B
Your name says it best, you will always be B(second) in this house buddy.
Show me a pic of him doing the 3 finger salute. Ive never seen one, or are you fantasizing again you schmuck!
So did Zvone Boban but you don’t see him holding up 3 fingers in 1991 now do you? Hell a Brazilian has done more for Croatia than any of us. Comment was pretty bush league Shinobi. One more and I’m gonna have to ask for my ninja stars and nun chucks back.
@Denis
I definitely believe fabio grosso is a italian legend. If not for him they would not have that fourth world cup in their trophy cabinet.
It wouldnt surprise me if they built a gold statue of him in his honour.
The dive/fall in the penalty area against ausralia. Remember they were a man down and australia was really hitting their stride before this incident. Outcome, italy advance to quarters against a lowly ukraine. Italy advance to semi final against germany. A tight and close game but germany having the better chances and looking the more likely to advance to the final. The game goes into extra time, both sides searching for a game winning goal. Who else but grosso steps up and becomes a hero, the one who breaks the deadlock and sends italy to the final. The winning penalty kick was just the icing on the cake for this unlikely hero, but thats exactly what he was for italy.
He made his mark, he created history, grabbed the moment and made it his world cup, he stood up at the right place at the right time.
To me he epitomizes the word legend and im sure most italians would agree.
@Ante K (lil snack man)
John Aloisi for australia became an instant legend after scoring the final penalty kick against uruguay to send austalia into the world cup after a 34 year absence.
@Denis S
How can you agree that prosinecki is the most talented player to ever wear the checks and then have him just miss out in your “Elite” catergorey.
This just doesnt make sense to me?
Oh and bilos never wanted to play for croatia he was argentina through and through.
@Ante B
Lay off the yugo stuff will ya.
You should be proud that a player of his calibre played for our national team.
Prosinecki did more for croatia in one minute than you could do in a life time.
@MelbCro
Same goes for you.^
My blood lines…my father 100% Slavonac…my mother 50% Lika 50% Serb! she was raised Catholic as were we. I’m not embarassed by it I am open about it. my mother was raised in Macedonia and in her early teens moved to Slavonija. I dont have any family in serbia but if I did I’d say it…I know who I am and who we are. all my family today live in Croatia and Sweden from both sides…I have never seen the inside of a serbian church nor has my mother. she was raised very catholic…my cousins from her side live in Split…my guy cousin served in Cavoglave for HVO and my girl cousin teaches Croatian art history also in Split! my fathers side were historically Slavonci but I’m sure there must be German blood…my dads family were proud Ustase…and some paid a heavy price for it even after the war ended!
In terms of my blood, my mom is full Purgerica so I’m sure there’s some Slovenian somewhere. My Tata was born and raised in Zagreb but his family is from Lika. Given my height and hairiness, I’m sure there has to be a Turk in there somewhere down the line.
BLAGO ZADRO!
Go to Vukovar once in your lifetime. Every Hrvat must at least once. It will change your life.
@ Mihovil – thanks for the comment. I think the biggest Croatian hero of our time is Gotovina…I’m crushed he’s locked away and was given up by the Croatian government. I can’t imagine another country agreeing to allow the prosecution of their National HERO!
@ Slavonac from Canada
Jako dobro!
Our parents are heroes. Ante Gotovina and our people who fought for our country in the war are heroes. Boban is a hero for what he did @ Maksimir.
Olic plays the game with the same conviction and heart as the people above for the reasons Slavonac mentioned. I would go to war with him gladly. His legend status is undetermined as he is still playing. According to your poll results it looks good though.
🙂
Nice article Ante and good luck in Zagreb! You are young and it is worth a shot for sure!
@ Pintar
Some very nice comments throughout.
@Denis
No Serbian blood but some Slovenian. That seems to be treated as bad or worse these days. 😉
@Allen
Let’s all hope Olic scores a crucial goal in the tourney. Something we can all agree on!
@Jarac:
Amen
@Ante K:
I live in Monmouth County NJ. I choose not to use my real name anymore, but I have emailed you and Matt a couple of times with links, etc. I chose the name as a joke, when all the “Veliki Hrvat” chatter was happening.
I am definitely a mali HRVAT by any standard. Many in Croatia would define us as American regardless of how many times we visit or proficiency in language. BTW I would like to improve both.
I truly have an intense dislike for politicians of any affiliation, color or creed.
A good politician is like an innocent man in prison. They all claim to be, but you know that is not the truth.
My cousins like to talk politics and trash Bush, etc. and I usually just laugh and say it is complicated. Then they tell me how great Tom Cruise or John Revolta is and I just smile and try not to vomit.
Good Luck with your future endeavors, I have complete confidence in you.
@Jarac,
Where are you writing us from?
I agree with you about diaspora. The Croatian-Americans that bring American government into conversation will get the cold shoulder. Also, if you don’t speak a lick of Croatian, good luck. Besides that, I think that most of the diaspora is welcomed with open arms.
When I ask about “serbian blood” I meant what is known for a few generations back. Most people don’t even know their family trees two-three-hundred + years ago. I’m talking about Croatians with a Serbian grandpa or at most a great grandpa.
As far as who I marry, I would hope for a Croatian girl, but wouldn’t close the book on someone if she wasn’t Croatian.
Not that it matters, but my mother’s side is Croatian for hundreds of years for sure. My paternal grandma might have some Italian in her, judging by her last name, however, who knows.
I agree with you that some last names could be both serbian and Croatian. Dokovic and Dakovic come to mind.
Jarac, oh trust me, balls have been busted… 🙂
I remember being a kid back in the selo not being able to get a word in with the kids at the soccer field. President Bush statements and all that good stuff. Looking back on it, I laugh.
I digress. Olic not a legend, but definitely a Croatian hero. I think that’s what I learned from this post.
Signed,
-Alligator Skin
@Ante
If someone came at me saying Tko si ti? ja sam Jon Doe ah tko si ti majstore? I have never had anyone ask mi tko si ti, I have had them call me amerikanac, but they enjoy busting my balls.
@Ante,
Of course they call u an amerikanac cause u are, there busting ur balls get some thicker skin.
@ Jarac
Of course there are cool and understanding people anywhere you go in the world but many times in my own personal experience the first thing Croatians in Croatia say are “Amerikanac” and label you right off the bat that way. “Tko si ti?” is what I hear. Many joke but there is still truth behind any joke.
Many are super cool though and want to know stories about Los Angeles and Hollywood and completely open up. We share some good laughs…
But there’s always that other side.
@Ante
I think u got it wrong, alot of people in cro don’t have a problem with the dispora. They may have a problem with the cro-american who can’t understand or speak to them and they loose respect for them. Or they may be spiteful cause the diaspora is able to vote and influence politics there. And i dunno about u but many of the old timers go back there and tell them about all the shit thats wrong with Cro and that they need to be more like america, blah blah blah. But if u go there and act normal and socialize, most people will accept u if there looking to socialize of have a friend, just like over here
@ mali
That’s fine that you feel that way, nothing wrong with that. Nice analogy as well….
But you do have a better life living here (which city are you in?) Correct?
Many of us talk a big game about Croatia and that we’re big Croatians and some have ‘grb’ tattoos on their arm and chest but when I ask them about moving back to Croatia they just smile and say, “Well I go back there in summer. Isn’t that enough?” Enough for what?
And I’m not saying you’re one of these people by the way.
I plan to move to Zagreb in the next year or two. If I could create some financial stability for myself while there, imagine where this website can be with a full time reporter in the center of it all. Look what Crippler has done because North America is the heart of the MMA world.
I want to bring the skills I have learned in the States back to Croatia. I think that’s a fair attitude.
Many people in the domovina despise the diaspora. I can understand why. I’m also guilty by their standards. Live outside Croatia, visit once every few summers and call yourself Croatian.
However, they don’t understand the whole bi-cultural angle on it. We got the best deal. Two cultures to be a part of. We shouldn’t be ashamed of that.
eh moj mali hrvat,
ja uvijek kazem da mi tijelo je u americi, ali mi dusa je u hrvatska. Losa bila 45′ rasula nas preko svijeta.
@Ante K:
Have you ever seen a seagull 40 miles inland. It thrives because there is food, but you know it doesn’t belong there.
That is how I feel in America.
I have a last name that is very Dalmatian in origin, and yes there are people in Serbia with that same last name.
I guess some went to the New World for economic opportunities and others went to Beograd.
I count Prosinecki as a Croat despite any trepidation he may have had about the NT. I have never seen him do the 3 finger salute in any photos or videos.
I have a distant relative (from Dalmatia) who played in Beograd because Hajduk said he was not good enough. The coaches told him that they had more talented kids from Split and they would not need his services. He was good and wanted to elevate his game, so he grabbed the opportunity in Beograd. He was and still is a Croat.
@Denis
How many have serbian blood? I dunno if you can answer that, but I am sure most people can find there last name prominent in serbia too, don’t know if that means ur related, but who the hell knows what happened centuries ago. PS, are you gonna marry a Croatian girl to keep the blood line pure? (haha that was a rhetorical question, u don’t need to answer it)
@
Fuckin Dinamo Zagreb fans a bunch of bitches who boo there own national teams and players. Let me tell you who would’ve been a legend, and kicked our ass during the 2006 world cup. Mark Viduka! Poor guy was jeered out of Zagreb, BBB hating on damn good hrvati, instead of cheering for them. Guy was a beast
Torcida Zauvijek
RE: Zuti being half Croatian/half Serb..
You can’t force a person to choose one side, that’s unfair…especially comeing from anyone on this website. We are all (for the majority) Croatian-American, Croatian-Canadian or Croatian-Australian here on this website. We all obviously love both cultures, otherwise you would be living in Croatia right now.
We all have the best of both worlds. We are blessed. What if someone put a gun to your head and said you had to pick a side culturally, Croatia or the U.S? That sucks. We don’t just talk Croatian soccer here, but I also see a lot of basketball and NFL talk. First put yourself in that situation, and then see how hard it would be to finally make a decision.
@ Ziva,
Regarding what people in Zagreb would say about Zuti going back to Zvezda…funny you should bring that up. Here ya go….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlyNCMeIW4
so. that is 50% and 50% of the other, ,. that
Croatia need Strong Striker like Suker and Boksic.
what the heck of ’98 is. . when dude like Modric,kranjcar
not to be capable as well as Prosinecki, boban, asanovic
in combination and colaboration for National Team Work.
Ziva is killing it right now. Love him or hate him, the guy is really smart when he’s not being so damn arrogant. I’ve shared my grievances and all out rants about him, but when he’s not arrogant I really enjoy his posts.
As for the Italy references and good Inzaghi reference. You got me there but I’m just bitter. Its tough to explain but it still bothers me and annoys me. Of course I respect Olic and he deserves his props for scoring in the most epic upset I’ve ever witnessed in my life (Germany upset was way bigger and better than a beat up England team). I don’t fully hate him, but I’m just really bitter about him. Its hard to explain but you made some valid points. Hopefully he has one more goal in him this tournament, that’s all I ask for.
he did get threats in 1992 and 1993 from both sides. I’m sure most of them were nothing but talk, but saying he did not is wrong.
And again, he did not avoid playing for the national team in 99 against Yugo.
I like that everyone has an opinion, but lets be accurate and not making up things.
He didnt get any death threats please dont believe that crap for one minute i was at that game in zagreb i remeber he was hurt but played for dinamo that next week i remeber sinisa mihajlovic getting boooed and hes croatian from vukovar but is a proud serb! if you are a pravoslavac in croatia you are croatian and that will alway be a problem in Ljepa nasa the croatian pravoslavci aying their serbian but he doesnt now shit about serbia i live here i see it in my town aswell!
@Ziva Istina,
You make some good points. I agree with you.
@Slavonac,
Just like Ziva stated, “receiving death threats from both sides” did not make his decision an easy one. From the facts, it sounds as if Prosinecki was just about 50-50… maybe 60-40… Maybe the “FIFA sanctions” did play a deciding factor. But I can’t blame him for waiting.
I agree with you on Bilos and Cvitanovich. Both of them have Argentina as #1 and since they cant make it why not jump on Croatia. AS far as Robbie, he really is 50-50… so the choice is his.
Chris Kaman(basketball) represented Germany because he has a german grandpa. What a joke. Even his own father said in the media that his son is not German.
@Dalmatinac,
I can’t blame Prosinecki for refusing to play against Jugoslavija. First, he is half serb. Second, death threats. Third, imagine him scoring a goal to eliminate Yugo or not playing “well enough” and being considered a “trader”. Robbie wouldnt be ok mentally going into that game anyways.
He didn’t refuse to play in that game……He didn’t play in either game because like much of his career, he was hurt.
Stani pricati o prosineckog molim vas! he chose croatia and thats final man big deal he was a zvezda player god bless and move one please, Thats how it was back then and amen, more over i am more angry that he refused to play against Jugoslavija in euro 2000 qualifying game in zagreb than him playing for zvezda.
@Salvonac……The last time Zuti played for Yugo was in 1991 and his first game for Cro was in 1994. I think his first game was against Spain in a friendly.
Now, why did he wait???? I don’t think even he knew what he wanted to do. I think early on he felt staying with jugo would help his career the most, but eventually he saw the sanctions on jugo and hrvatska kept xcalling and trying to convince him to play. I remember hearing there were threats given to him by both sides. Now, how true that is, I am not so sure.
@ Ziva – I agree with what you said and how you said it…I’d never go to Zvezda either but I’m not him! you make good and clear points and I have one question? is it true he waited before he decided? if that is true (I had no idea and never heard that before) then I’m done defending him…to me thats enough to say he’s two faced…sure he may be a nice guy but I also agree with another thing you said…he doesnt have a strong personality…thats ok if your not wanting to agree or disagree with someone…but its not ok when you are defining who you are as a person…you either are or not with us…there is no way he should have had the opportunity to see how something is going to play out. Its similar to Daniel Bilos…once I heard he would make a decision to play or not with Croatia if he gets a call from Argentina or not…piss off…and in Prosinecki’s case if he was deciding on playing for Serbia and weighing his options…F!#* HIM…I hope you’re wrong…like In said before…I have never heard these allegations before and I find these actions… if true… to be repulsive!
@Denis………let me add my two cents. I think some of this was touched last year when Zuti took the Zvezda job. To me Zuti was never a hrvat or a serb, he was and still is a jugolsav. Many are like him in that aspect back in Croatia and throughout the diaspora (hello Chicago). On some levels I can understand that because he is from a mixed marriage. Prosinecki was never a strong personality. That is the reason it did take him about 18 months to make up his mind and finally committ to playing for Croatia (I’m sure the FIFA sanctions on Yugo helped). None of his former teammates on the repka will say anything bad about him because they really do like him.
Me, personally, I am indifferent to him. He was forced out of Dinamo and found a home at Zvezda. I can’t blame him for playing with Zvezda because back in those days the only way you could make money is by playing with the big 4 teams. He helped them to a CL title and he ended up with a nice transfer over to Spain because of it.
As for taking the coaching job at Zvezda……I wouldn’t have done it, then again I didn’t make my name at Zvezda and I didn’t lead them to the greatest moment in their history. I think if you pollled sports fans in ZG and asked them if they are OK with Zuti at Zvezda it would be around 60/40 not really holding it against Zuti.
I wouldn’t have done it, but I’m Ziva Istina and not a jugo like Zuti.
@AllenOutraged – one game doesn’t define a player. Olic isn’t a Legend and I do consider him a hero…maybe not in the way most forwards are perceived as a hero but moreso for his constant pressure on defenders, ability to be in the right place, his 100% team effort and attitude, his spirit to his teammates…these things are measured and respected at the professional level…its the people who have never played or experienced soccer at that level who have no appreciation for a player like him. several years ago Gennaro Gattuso was a hero in Italy…he was a workhorse and pitbull…did he score much…no…he sacrificed his body and ran miles upon miles every game…he was effective for his team and was acknowledged for his contributions. Pippo Inzaghi was a garbage collector…he was offside 15 times a game…but he scored and did little to help his teammates defensively…he was also praised and appreciated for his contributions.
I’ve played with guys that would dive into a tackle where you wouldn’t dare put you foot…all these intangibles makeup what we call teamwork…and believe me…11 players play as a team or you will lose. Niko Kovac wasn’t a superstar by any means…but he was a commander on the field and respected by his peers because of his commitment to his teammates…he lead by example and when he spoke everyone listened. in my opinion…he was a Hero but moreso for Croatians than anywhere else!
Mivohl- I agree some players clearly didn’t perform up to par. Kranjcar was poor that game and Rakitic struggled for most part. Ironically it was one of Srna’s best games from recent memory. I agree it wasn’t all on Olic but when you look at guys responsible for that loss. Olic is the prime guy because he couldn’t score on great opportunities. I hate to go on and on about it, hopefully Olic scores a critical goal in the tournament to shut me up.
@Allen,
Good point about “legend” vs. “hero”. I agree.
@Ziva,
“It’s all subjective and depends on your perspective on things.”
Yup, this is why the pyramid list makes sense.
@Ante K,
I disagree about “only a goalie becomes a legend in penalty kicks.” However, I like Allen’s “hero” vs. Legend argument. I would say Grosso is a hero not a legend.
@MelbCro,
I must admit that I am a little uneducated about Robert Prosinecki. The only fact and most important fact is that Robbie is half Croatian/half serb born in Germany. Robbie will never be 100% croatian. Robbie might have been 80-20 for Croatia. Even with 20%, he will still be for Serbia. He can play for Croatia if he wishes and if he is chosen to play for the team.
Most Croatians expect him to drop ALL of the Serbian in him and forget about that side as if its some kind of a cancer.
Like Slavonac mentioned, I haven’t heard of one Croatian “legend” or Croatian player ever say anything negative about Robbie.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the three finger salute is not just a Cetnik thing, its a Serbian thing.
Not all Serbs are cetniks and not all croats are ustasa.
I feel that there is nothing wrong with Robbie having “serbian pride” because he is serbian. However, if he shows Cetnik signs than thats a different story and whatever Robbie did for Croatia should have an asterisk next to it.
Give me some facts where Robbie is a cetnik and I will agree with you.
I’m not a yugo and Im not a serb supporter. But I can’t tell a Serb or part serb, not to root for Serbia or show serbian pride. Thats his choice.
I feel sorry for these people that come from mixed ethnic backgrounds, especially Croatia-Serbia. They were born into a crossfire. For the rest of their lives they are forced to pick a side and drop another. And the ones they drop, they have to keep concealed for the rest of their lives. How must a parent feel if his/her son has nothing to do with their ethnicity. That son shits on the entire family branch.
How many of you out there have Serbian blood? How many of you are keeping this hidden in the closet? Let me be the first one to tell you, its ok. You dont have to prove yourself to me or on this site, prove your Croatianness or “veliki hrvat” status.
Even if you are half-half… its ok. As long as you are not Cetnik or doing anything to harm the Croatian people.
.
Goran Prpic
@ AllenOutraged
“I’m happy more people are agreeing that Olic isn’t. I knew this site had plenty of knowledge people so good job everyone. The fact is that I’ve never cried over a game in my life more than that Turkey game. I’m a bigger football fan and basketball yet no Falcons loss or Heat loss made me cry as much as Croatia did. That game was in their hands and Croatia was set to play a team they already beat in Germany. I hate reliving it and it just makes me sick.”
Saying Ivica cost us the Turkey 08 game is like saying that Wes Welker cost NE the last SB. Both statements are incorrect and as it applies to Olic even more incorrect. You’re missing the big picture.
It’s all subjective and depends on your perspective on things.
Grosso is a legenda is your Italian. if you are an average fan then the guy is shit.
I’m happy more people are agreeing that Olic isn’t. I knew this site had plenty of knowledge people so good job everyone. The fact is that I’ve never cried over a game in my life more than that Turkey game. I’m a bigger football fan and basketball yet no Falcons loss or Heat loss made me cry as much as Croatia did. That game was in their hands and Croatia was set to play a team they already beat in Germany. I hate reliving it and it just makes me sick.
As for Grosso well that is interesting. I hate the prick forever mainly for diving to eliminate Australia in 2006. I’m part Australian with my mom born in Melbourne so when Grosso clearly dived, I flipped out. He’s a damn good player but as a legend, I don’t think so. People misuse legend with the word hero. Like you could say Ivica Olic is a hero for his efforts. Those great clutch goals will never be forgotten and he could be a hero, but what about overall game performances. It was rarely ever tehre with actual skill and playmaking ability. Grosso is a hero but I don’t think he’s a legend.
@ Anonymous – my sister hates the politics there…she says everyone is corrupt and its impossible to know who to trust…and believe me, Slavonija is not a great place to live these days. She still believes in keeping our values regardless of how hard it is…in the end, she wouldn’t leave Hrvatska for Canada for any money in the world…I guess she loves it there regardless!
@MelbCro – you still didn’t answer me regarding Yugo’s …how many Croatians were Yugo’s and members of the communist party pre 1991? and to respond to your comment about Prosinecki raising his hand or not, this is the first time I’ve ever heard of that so if its true then yes, I would have to somewhat agree with you. my whole point about Prosinecki isn’t to defend a Serb…if he really feels that way my point is this…I’m not 100% sure if everything I’m saying is factual but its all I know. He played for Dinamo and Ciro Blazevic embarassed him publicly…told the media if this kid becomes a player, I will eat my diploma…those are pretty harsh words…and…how embarassing would that be to any of us…so Zvezda took him and of course he’s not the first Croatian to play in Serbia. he went there and was immediately a superstar…and they treated him like that…think about what must have been going through his mind as a young man…kicked out of Zagreb and now living in Beograd where he was a LEGEND…what was he supposed to do…go play for Sarajevo, Velez, Osijek??? maybe that was his only option…and…in those days I repeat…several players from all parts of Croatia played where they were selected and not necessarily where they chose! you act as if he had a huge choice in the matter! I dont give 2 shits about him personally but I think its not right to comment if we aren’t completely factual and understand the situation (I’m not saying I know all the facts either, I’m saying this is what I think I know) and not crucify the guy for things that may or may not be true!
He left the National team for his career! If he’s such a traitor…why would such huge Hrvati like Boban, Bilic, Asanovic and several others still support him. its easy for you to say from the comfort of your home in Melbourne (great city by the way) what he should or shouldn’t do because you arent a pro soccer player or coach who has to put food on the table for your family using soccer as a means of employment! I dont particularly like him coaching there and in fact its kind of embarassing to me that he is there…but I’m not him and I dont think I have a right to question a man’s ways for providing an income for his family and trying to further his career…and I certainly dont think I can call him a Yugo unless of course what you are saying is true…then…i swear I would remove any of his achievements from croatian records…discredit his pledge as a Hrvat and consider his playing with Hrvatska a fraud and only for his career benefit…but that has to be proven very clearly before I would make such claims!
I am never a supporter of Yugo’s dude! I hope he really isn’t that way and quite honestly I trust some of my sources in Hrvatska that tell me he’s not! if your point is proven to be correct then he is a cigan…just as I view all Yugo’s…in fact I respect a cedo saying he’s a cedo far more than I respect any Yugo…I hope you get my point!
@Slavonac from Canada
Like your sister, I was watched, reported on, laughed at and looked down at. They belonged to the partija and enjoyed all the extras that partija was providing. When I visited in the beginning of 1996, they told me that they are finally who they were always inside, they go to church now, partija prohibited going to the mass before, they belong to HDZ and finally they are happy….
I visited three years after, church was empty of those newcomers , I was told that being in HDZ helped them get a better job and more help from what was coming from outside (charities) during the war. Finally, I understood who they are.
Sometimes I wonder if your sister and I are doing it all wrong: we should adapt to “changes” in this world and get all the benefits. Then, I hear my father from the other side telling me to be true to myself and I realize that I can NOT be like them. They are born and raised that way. Periodically, I run into that sort of people and when they question what kind of hrvat I am, I want to “razbiti im njusku”. My father steps in on time:”They are not worth it”.
@ MelbCro
Please educate us, write the article on dealings between Prosinecki and Arkan with videos if possible. That would help us get the inside on his character and his national affiliation.
Also, if you set that at side, what do you think about his soccer talents or lack of it?
Do not agree that he is a legend. Only element he brings is his speed. Very mediocre at everything else. Better club player than NT player. Gave this guy the benefit of the doubt MANY times in the past, but failed to impress. He wouldn’t be in my top 5 list for all time NT strikers for sure.
@Denis
True enough about winning. I guess I was thinking big and memorable moments equating with some victory, but it bears mentioning.
I decided to stop thinking about this argument entirely and just wear my Olic Bayern jersey today. 😉
Yeah ,,, dado Prso may be my Best , ,
on level 3 as well as Ivica Olic in football career.
and Marko Babic ..has a same character with Corluka.
so I put him in Level 3. too ! !
Legends are different for every team. It’s much harder to become a Brazilian, Spanish, Italian legend than it is Croatian, Swiss, Swedish. Those country’s have thicker history and championships.
Once you are labeled as world-class, that automatically makes you a legend in your own country. You are now being represented on a global level, not just national…
And just because someone is popular in Buzakastan doesn’t make them global or world class. Suker was huge for Croatia but he went global when he produced at the Corld Cup, why?, because he did it on the world stage.
When one of our current players produces on the world stage, then we will have this conversation again, to see if that effort puts him in the history books.
RE: Grosso
No, Grosso is not a legend for scoring that PK. In penalty kicks, only a goalie can come out a hero while shooters are expected to score. If you don’t, you come out a villain.
Look at how Buffon was praised when he blocked the PK in the Romania game during Euro 2008. If he let’s that slide, Italy doesn’t make it out of group stage and Kvartuc cleans up $50.
Italy has four Cups already…like I said earlier, it’s tougher to get into that fraternity. Easier for Croatia. Just like some Maltese, Andorran, Faroe Islands players might be considered heros just for scoring a couple goals in qualifying.
@ Slavonac
Do you realise that all the players of our golden generation put their hand up to play for Croatia as soon as the repka was re-established. All of them except one, and that is Prosinecki. For years he refused to make a choice about who he would play for. He only put his hand up to play for Croatia in 1994. Thats really says it all as far as I’m concerned. You can try and re-write history if you want, but you are not going to change what are clear facts.
@ Denis
So you condone Prosinecki’s dealings with Arkan? You condone him making cetnik salutes? Those are clear political statements by Prosinecki. And they are unforgivable.
Does Yugo get thrown around to loosely? indeed it does. But Prosinecki is fully deserving of the tag. His views change with the wind, one day he is a big Croat, the next day a big Serb and then on the third day he is begging for a Croatain/Serbian brotherhood.
Question for everyone: Is Fabio Grosso a legend for Italy. For those of you that don’t know him, he scored the last penalty kick to win Italy World Cup 2006. Besides that penalty kick, Grosso had a mediocre career at best for Italy.
My point being is that I wouldn’t put a “legend” tag on a player for one memorable shot or memorable event
@Pintar,
“When I personally consider all of the criteria I named above (longevity, heart & commitment, skill, big or memorable moments”
What about winning? For Croatia winning would be anything more than qualifying for the tournament. However, even qualifying for a tournament is good for Croatia.
This is why I dock Boksic. Sadly, he was injured for every tournament besides WC 2002.
@Ante,
I dont like the term “legend”, because everyone has their own definition. This is why I use Bill Simmon’s criteria. Also, having less players to chose from makes it easier to classify players under levels. Besides a few players, its pretty much an open shut case.
While asking an Italian who an Italian soccer legend is, they might say Grosso.
To answer your question for legend: I have Boban and Suker as locks… N Kovac, Prosinecki and Boksic all questionable.
@Slavonac,
I am not taking club career into consideration. If that was the case then Petric and Klasnic would receive higher grades. They didnt call Klasnic “killer” for nothing.
@AB,
Good solid analysis. I agree.
@Ziva Istina,
I agree with HNK DALMATINAC CRNO that our WC 2006 team was better than what we have today. Our players today are riding the benchs and/or barely producing at clubs and our 2012 qualifying campaign was pitiful besides the game in Istanbul. Our defense today is swiss cheese compared to 2006. Our midfield today is slightly better. Our strikers were better in 2006. Pletikosa was better in 2006.
You listed our bench in 2006. bench doesnt play.
@Goldenchild,
You can make a case for Jarni up a level, but no way you put Modric in the same sentence as Boksic and Prosinecki. Modric might get there one day, just not now.
“Behind every great player, there is a man that makes him great.”
I agree with that statement 100%. Suker was lazy, barely ran. They used to say that for Suker to score you need to have someone to run for 2 players.
@Slavonac,
I agree with your “Yugo” analysis. Some people throw that word around too loosely around here.
Prosinecki has a serbian mother. Enough said. What do people want him to say that he’s 100% Croatian? People are shocked that he has Serbian relations.
I must agree with Denis about Niko, Boban & Davor, nobody can rank among them, especially not Olic.
I also agree with AllenOutraged, definite choke artist, and if he was to be considered elite then what has Croatian football become? From Suker to Olic, one could change a game 9 out of 10 times, the other 2 or 3 out of 10.
Slavonac,
Zuti did both, he went there before and after the war. He’s scum in my book. MelbCro, I like your style. Malo nas je al nas ima.
In my eyes, he is a definite legend. He epitomizes the hard work and heart that Croatians have. Rarely gives up, has a motor for ages and seems a humble and good human being. He gives it all for club and country. Too bad he’ll be done soon. Maybe some young ones will learn from his work ethic.
@Melbcro – then there are literally thousands of examples of Yugo’s amongst Croatians…pre 1991…Suker was best friends with Mijatovic, how many Croatians were part on the communist party and received apartments for being a member. I said this before and I’ll say it again…Prosinecki was kicked out of Dinamo by a egotistical Biro…he didnt go to Zvezda because he wanted to…if he was a Yugo he could have easily went to the Serb side during or after the war…he is there for his profession…why is that so hard to understand?
I have a question to you: my sister grew up in Slavonija and told me how people would watch her and my grandma walk to church, but those people would never go…those same people had government apartments and other perks because they were party members…how many Croatians that you know were one of those watching them walk to church and taking notes for the party…those are Yugo’s dude!
Dado prso knocked out of cl lore today by messi.. Topping prso’s 4 goal cl game record (tie), ending the long debate of who is better prso v messi
Jesus, this thing blew up.
@Denis
Move Modric up a tier. Not sure how you leave him down there. And you’re killing me with putting Jarni all the way in the cellar? cooommmeee onnn man.
Olic is definitely below Suker, Boban, Prosinecki.
I’d put him on the second tier of greatness. He’s clutch, he’s done great things, but I would never put him on the same pedestal as the other guys mentioned above.
@Anonymous
I’m very much like you when it comes to looking at players. I know Kranjcar is lazy, but he has a great amount of talent and knowledge of the game. I’d take that any day over a guy that is fast and big.
Going along with that….
Behind every great player, there is a man that makes him great. With a guy like Suker his individual skill was only amplified by the guys that understood him and knew where to give him the ball. The better the player the easier it is obviously, but I feel like those guys never get enough credit(that’s life). Guys like Jarni and Asanovic are guys that I look up to because they set things up. They are the ones controlling the middle and making things happen. Without them, tell the forwards to kiss their goals goodbye.
Being on the same page is something that our NT is seriously lacking. It’s become more of a bunch of individuals playing, instead of a team playing…..but that’s another post.
I’ll say this about Suker….he was a legend on the pitch…..but a pile of shit off the pitch…..he needs to stay away from the savez…..I don’t like these rumors of him taking over for markovic one day…..we don’t need anymore crooks
Wha is or is not a legend is all subjective. Some people remember players for different reasons.
I will give you an example. I rate slaven Bilic as a player very high. At one point in his career he was given the highest transfer fee ever for a defender. Plus, what really rates him high for me is that he sacrificed his career to play in that 98 world cup. He took pain injection shots for every game and he paid the price after the world cup. He was never the same player, not even close.
Back to the legends discussion…..I guy I would throw in there is Ivan ljubicic who has announced or will announce his retirement from tennis before the french open. He carried Croatian in 2005 to the Davis Cup. One of the greatest Davis cup years in history.
And when….(not if.. because I’m forever optimistic)…..but WHEN we see a Croatian Footballer who excels to the point where they win us a Euro or World Cup…That individual would be equivalent and then surpass Suker as a legend.
There are legends….then there are a handful of really good players.
We can’t throw around the word ‘legend’ so freely when we have no titles show for it.
lol Legends are supposed to be “of the highest class”…are they not?
Before you can decide who is a legend….you have to define what MAKES a legend.
@ Toronto
Suker was World class AND a Golden Boot winner. For those two reasons, he should not be used as the Standard to being a Croatian legend. He definitely overachieved for Croatia.
We won’t see anything like that wearing Croatian checkers in awhile. We can’t be using Suker as the bar for that reason.
Suker is the Croatian STANDARD for Legend. So ask yourself who can come close to him or measure up to him before we throw the word ‘legend’ around.
With that being said…..I love Olic. I love how hard he hustles, and he really is one of those guys that puts his HEART into every game.
If every Croatian player played with as much heart as Olic does, then the team WOULD be 10 times stronger….
So is he a legend? still debatable….but his heart definately has to account for something. His performance in these upcoming Euros could definately raise his status.
Boban was a legend regardless of the incident. But if you isolate the incident and don’t look at Boban as a great player, he’s a legend just because of what he did, not how he played. A shitty player could have done that and he would have been named a legend.
Olic a legend? Not even close.
@ Salvonac
“I’ve never ever heard anyone consider Prosinecki a Jugo…NEVER! ”
really so when he played at Red Star and was doing the 3 finger salute, chatting and hanging out with Arkan, singing Serbian nationalist songs, he was doing all that as a Croatian patriot? hahahaha. You are a funny one. Prosinecki is two faced, which is the central trait of a Yugo.
Everyone who is saying Boban is an elite player for “politcal reasons” really needs to get their head examined. He played for big clubs in big games and was a major fixture on the field. Even if he didn’t kick the police officer, he would still be a legend and an elite player
Congrats he does some things that you don’t’ see on the score sheet. That’s not what a striker is supposed to do. You are a striker and you’re supposed to score or at least assist on things. Now people will say his movement, well good that helped once in a while. God I hate soccer fans sometimes, all you need to do is run and not act like a jack ass then you will have people calling you a legend. Good to know, pathetic.
The only legend I’ve witnessed since watching was Niko Kovac! A man who was an absolute work horse and took free kicks to the face at some points. I’m aware that his goal against Australia was a fluke but he was a great captain and had so much pride. God I miss that man.
The word legend is used way too much like people have said. I don’t care what he does, but a striker that scores so little in so many games is not even a sniff to the word legend. You people just use it just because he runs and smiles so much like the doofus that he is. I can judge him off that moment because it made me cry and depressed for days. Also in case you guys didn’t read, he had an awful 2010 World Cup qualifying campaign. Don’t give me your garbage Ante with this laughable article. Olic doesn’t produce simple as that and I hope that he finally goes to sleep after this tournament. I’m happy some of you agree that this assessment is a joke and whoever votes in the poll as yes, well you need a reality check. I’ve been disgusted and disappointed in Olic ever since that Turkey game then he had a terrible WC campaign.
I’m 18 years old just to remind everyone and I’ve been watching 2006. That’s why I refuse to make a list because I don’t know all my history. I’m not sure about a few guys from 1998 so don’t ask me. If you’re going to use this against me, well your more pathetic than I already thoughts some of you are.
The fact is that Olic isn’t a legend and an article like this makes me sick. Let me know when he does something that actually required skill. Congrats he’s a genius at movement which is probably good for him because he realizes how terrible he is skill wise.
I ziva i was saying if the coach was smart eduardo would have played 2006 i know why cico dindt call him im saying if i we coach which i am not. boze.
And @ crojersey true but otto was another idiot who playeda anti football he could have had a decent team if he called up the right players.
DADO PRSO IS A LEGENDO I DONT CARE HE IS TO ME!
Ziva istina ti sve znas blago tebi u zivotu ako je ovo danas tebi bolje ekipa onda stvarno neznas nogomet
I actually liked Cico as coach, but he f’ed up big time in the World Cup, the team didn’t look one bit prepared outside the Brazil match.
To me, the Euro 2004 was the worst Croatian team ever, but to their credit they managed to qualify and keep alive until the final group match. Baric was such a negative coach and many of the players weren’t international quality
@ HNK DALMATINAC CRNO – Dado Prso had a relatively short career…i liked him…ali legendo? ma daj molimte!
Cico didn’t call the brazilain-born hrvat because he said he wasn’t go to play. What is the point of calling him if he was not going to play. Some coahces believe in giving the final roster spot to a young kid, others do not.
That 06 team was garbage and it was a illusion that we topped the qualifying group. Cico did a great job to get first, but all of our flaws were exposed at that WC.
This team is more talented than the 06 sqaud.
And Ziva cico didnt call Eduardo. That team cico called wa a joke but if we had a better coach 2006 we had atrong team!
@ Ziva i didnt say that team i said if we had a smarter coach it could have been beter come on man it was strong than the 2008 team be serious look Tudor ok he was but he defended well come on man look thise wre cicos boys i saying look at this team my 2006 team Pletikosa Butina didulica babic pranjic tomas tudor kovac r simunic simic corluka a young 19 yearold srna modric kranjcar n kovac rapaic prso klasnic olic come on you know you would rather have this team than th team today
DADO PRSO LEGENDAAAAA! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLs8P4xZWJM
@Ziva
Agreed! We were a joke in ’06.
@Olly
I don’t understand how you can claim Srna as legend status. I don’t see it personally . . . but maybe it’s just a matter of character for me. Srna takes enough dives to be featured in Serie A highlight reels. I’m always cringing with embarrassment when watching him.
@HNK DALMATINAC CRNO………….Am i reading this correct. You think our 06 WC team was strong?
You do realize the following frauds were on that squad…..
Igor Tudor….the biggest cancer and headcase the national team has ever seen
Vranjes…..enough said
Dario Simic…..over the hill at that point, but collecting a nice check
Babic….was OK at this point
Mario Tokic…..LOL
Stjepan Tomas…..double LOL
Ivan Leko…..journeyman at best
Jerko Leko……ughhh
Anthony Seric…..that money his old man paid to Ciro in 1998 went a long way
Boško Balaban….serviceable at the time, but hardly a player that was elite
Ivan Bosnjak……ajme meni
Not all starters, some were….but this was our bench. No way we were good enough to advance past the first round.
BBB well zvezda gave him everything. he won the cl with them. he is a legend.
ah jebiga…netko mora! its ok to hold a grudge and keep your principle…just dont let it get in the way of your life!
Itekako
Ante plleeaasssee…tvrdoglav!
Ah, see. I hold grudges and never forget.
ok ok…lets just disagree…its not worth arguing about! I do get what you mean also…but somehow I feel bad for the guy and always wonder what would have been if Ciro didn’t have such an ego…we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion today!
for the record…i’m a Dinamo fan but I don’t hold grudges on players for where they play…with regards to Niko…I’m certain he did what he had to…none of us really know all the details so I don’t judge when I don’t know all the facts!
Why not go to zvezda at that time croatia said no to robi but serbia said yes, kranjcar is differnet to me because niko was so hyped since he was 15 and what he turned into an average player at that time 2005 it was the thing to do for niko cause he was under pressure from mamic and he really didnt fill his potential mamic had modric in inter zapresic at that time. I know people will tell me stop living in the past but today at a kafic me and my buddies were saying that from 2004 to now was wasted by stupid coaches and bad desicions Th 2006 wc our team was at it strongest imagine if cico want a pijancine and disnt puh his son look at this line up Pletikosa Babic rKovac Simic Tudor Srna nKovac Modric Rapaic Eduardo Prso the bench pranjic kranjcar simunic olic klasnic petric vranjes leko, 2006
Let me clear it up: I’m “fine” he went to zvezda during his playing days. It’s him going back to coach that I wot forgive.
Dukicu, oh let’s not let the facts get in the way. Ciro dropped him and then Robi came back. I’m one of those who will never forgive him for going to zvezda like I won’t forgive kranjcar going to hajduk. I am in the small minority.
Slavonac we have reached an impasse. Zuti would never make my list. For the story you gave me, I could give you the same opposite story from guys I know who are active BBB.
Croatian legende for me at this very moment are Boban Prosinecki Suker Jarni Stanic N and R Kovac Dado Prso, i could add more but not now.
Olly – please don’t put Goran Vlaovic and Robert Prosinecki on the same level…you’re embarassing yourself!
Ante B – are you serious dude? I’ve never ever heard anyone consider Prosinecki a Jugo…NEVER! I have a very good and close friend who lives in Zagreb…he’s heavily involved in soccer and with several former players/coaches and even politicians…I asked him a few months ago what he thought and more specifically what others thought…like important people in soccer…what they thought of the fact that Prosinecki went to coach at Zvijezda…he told me in a very relaxed and comfortable manner…he had to for his career…he was in the back seat of Bilic’s car…but in all honesty…he was the master of tactics and formation for Bilic. It was solely a business move to further his career and nothing more!
I’m not going to argue with you Ante…if you feel strongly about it thats your opinion…my friend also said that many Croatian businesses deal with Serbs daily…its just part of life there whether we like it or not…people have to live and help their businesses…we dont have to like it but this is how it is!
Olic isnt a legend for a national team. He has been a very very good player for all his clubs, but at international level he didnt do it and wasnt potent to help Croatia to the latter stages of a few competitions. Vs Ecuador, Vs England (in WC qualifying), Vs Switzerland all reasons he’s not a legend. He’s given everything though, but that doesnt make him a Davor Suker or even a Goran Vlaovic.
He’s done ok. I think the only Croatia player who really has actually done it for Croatia for me to make legend status is Darijo Srna. His goal rate for a right midfielder is outstanding and he really has scored important and spectacular goals. I think Olic can be a legend if he does it at the Euro. But after this competition that’ll be his last. He’ll go down as a very good club player and a player that gave his all for Croatia.
Robert Kovac was one of many good defenders who all needed each other to make a half decent defence. As a group Kovac, Tudor, Simic, Simunic, Tomas and even Cvitanovic, Sablic, Babic, Vejic and Zivkovic has done well when asked to do a job. Sadly those were days when Croatia had defensive depth.
Olic isnt the only one falling just short of top rate status. Eduardo, Kranjcar, Modric all need to make their mark in a major tournament. I expect Modric to have a very good Euro though. I also think Rakitic will do well.
@ante b
your club is the one who told him to bounce. i love robbie! legend.
Leave the blonde jugo zvezdas off the list. The only list he belongs on is who is the biggest jugo jerkoff in Cro soccer.
Legends: Boban and Suker are the only two in this new generation. From the old school: too many to name but Matosic and Kacijan have to fall under elite.
As one of the older dudes on this site, I will second the feelings of nostalgia for the days of Suker, Boban, and Prosiniecki. Without question our golden era.
No matter how much I like Olic (and I do admire him greatly), I would not be so foolish as to put him with that trio in terms of skill.
Suker was . . . a special talent. World class. Simply sublime. Could play on any team in his prime and produce. The quintessential striker (what Romario once dubbed a “killer” or a matador). You saw him breaking at net and knew the odds were in your favor.
Watching Boban on those Milan teams (and on the NT of course) was something special too. I miss those times.
I argued with family and friends for years about Olic. Few years back, I would be upset that he is starting. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate his heart and his energy, but when he kicks the ball he has no idea where it will end up. I’m old school and I love when (by his actions) I can tell what is a player thinking, I can tell who was that ball for and how he imagined the rest of the attack. Yes, most of you don’t like Kranjcar, but he doesn’t need to hit the ball ten times, or a hundred times to send it where he wants. Most of his kicks are precise, and curved enough, or with just enough power to be a perfect pass. Don’t scream, I didn’t say every time. He is talented (I find most of talented people to be on the lazy side), and he has what I call connection between his brain and his foot.
Olic: His techniques and ball handling are poor, and precision and Olic cannot be mentioned in same sentence. Watching him play, I would get frustrated: it seemed no matter what he tries, he could not put that ball in the back of the net. Then, he surprises me and himself, and he scores. These days I look at him differently: we need someone like him to confuse the other team’s defense, make them tired and frustrated and hopefully that would leave some space for someone else to score. Sometimes, I wonder what his energy is doing for the rest of the team. If anybody has my traits, he is playing with their nerves too. One more point: do we have anybody better that can replace him now? I would say no, but we’ll take another look in May. Conclusion: all that has been said about him doesn’t make him a legend in my eyes. Not even if he is Slavonac.
AB
Ante K…well, at least you’re honest so I commend you on your work and efforts. Boban was popular amongst Croatians for that one act…but I remember him playing for Milan (and even when he went on loan to Bari)…I used to get up early and drive to an Italian coffe shop to watch games on satellite…specifically for Boban and my hero Maradona. Boban played with a star studded team which included some of the best ever european soccer players…and not only was he an amazing player…he was twice that as a professional, the Italians loved him! I will forever be proud of Zvone for his world class personality and play…he was above all…maybe not the most talented (ie Prosinecki) but he was the total package!
I’m surprised many don’t talk about Boksic…he destroyed defenders all over europe with his speed, tricky and quick moves and could score goals…I wasn’t a huge fan of his…but for our history as a NT…he was amazing!
@ Denis,
I think it’s unfair to parallel what Bill Simmons did with categorizing thousands of NBA players over generations to what we’re trying to do here. We can create 1,000 different levels for player status but that’s not what I tried to do with this article.
1) What makes a Croatian legend?
2) Is Olic a Croatian legend?
You’re bringing in Elite status and different tiers of membership. That’s too much for me. I feel like I’m being sold a credit card when it’s get’s to that point. For Croatia, we’e only talking a handful of players over a 16-year span. We should be able to name the legends from that.
As Pintar alluded to in his Dave Roberts example, you can be named a legend for one moment or an entire career, and I completely agree with that.
Example: Croatia is in the World Cup Final and we’re in extra time vs. Spain with the game tied up. Jerko Leko (insert name, doesn’t matter) comes off the bench and scores the winning goal to hand CRO the crown. He might’ve had the shittiest career ever but that moment immortalizes you forever. So being a legend isn’t just stats, it’s a combination of everything.
@ Allen,
You hold onto things too long. I forgive Olic for hitting the post against Turkey. You should too. “With a little luck”, it goes in. Let go of things my friend, you with have a healthier life that way. Call me Dr. Kvartuc
@ JerseyCro,
Nowhere in the above article did I finalize a decision on whether Olic is a legend or not. This is a fantastic discussional piece and I will always leave it to the readers of this website to discuss and debate. I only gave you factual stats in the piece and added that he works hard along the way. I don’t understand why you are shitting on the article…please explain.
@ Slavonac,
Funny you should say that. I’m 25 right now. I didn’t get into the Croatian soccer scene until 1998, and then I was only 12 years old. To be honest with you, I am not a proper source for anything pre-2004. I remember watching all the 98 and 2002 games live, but I didn’t understand the full picture of what was going on, tactics etc…so you are right in your assessment.
I always go to Denis to talk players pre-2004. I just know Suker is an automatic legend for obvious reasons and that Boban is for what he did politically, attacking the police officer in 1990. Back to ‘legend in a moment’ status, Boban is a legend just for that. On top of that, he was a great player.
@ Pintar,
Thank you for seeing what we are trying to do here. And it’s not rocket science by the way 🙂
“fan favorite” is not the same as legend. Like I said before, outside of Niko Kovac, there aren’t many in the post 1998 team which outside of Euro 2008 has only won one match at a major tournament.
Prso isn’t a legend either, but well respected, he basically carried that crappy 2004 team to Euro 2004 under Baric. The was one of the worst Croatian teams ever yet they still qualified to their credit
Great discussion, everyone. It’s taking shape according to everyone’s interpretation of what “legend” means. Maybe we should do a better job operationalizing it. While I agree the term can be thrown around loosely at times, a legendary sports icon has many aspects . . . longevity, heart & commitment, skill, big or memorable moments.
For instance, to use a baseball analogy, Dave Roberts (Bosox outfielder from ’04) is an unquestionable legend in New England for his steal of second base that created the momentum for the Sox to take back the series against the Yankees. The steal itself has been immortalized. This wasn’t even a game-winning play but that single event has at least given cause to the Dave Roberts legend argument. There is little else in his career (very short in Boston) to justify this.
I’m not suggesting Olic did any such thing, just mentioning that the definition varies quite widely amongst pundits.
When I personally consider all of the criteria I named above (longevity, heart & commitment, skill, big or memorable moments), I think he hits the marks well enough to be considered.
And again I say, he is among the best for Croatia all-time at the position he plays. There are few to be mentioned ahead of him and he has many caps (more to come). Is he among the best in the world at his position? No. Suker was and Boban was, to be sure. But this doesn’t, in my book, rule out Olic. You’re talking about two of the all-time greats from any country.
And maybe that’s what some of you are saying when you say he isn’t a legend. That’s just not necessarily my definition.
Olic is a heart and soul player and gives a 110% everytime he is on the field but the man has two left feet. He has scored some big game goals but hasn’t produced at that legend level like a davor suker did.
Stats wise if Olic is a legend then you would have to put Balaban and Prso name beside him also.Their game to goal ratio is more impressive for the repka.
One thing though you can’t take away from Olic is the pride he plays with when he wears the Hrvatska jersey.If all the players on the repka had the same heart then we might do something at the Euros.
@LAknat,
ELITE
Boksic, definitely deserves consideration for “elite status”. However, the reason that I cant mention him in the same sentence with Suker and Boban is because Boksic only represented Croatia in one tournament. Who knows what would have been if Boksic played in 98. Also, Boksic didn’t score enough goals for Croatia for a striker.
Niko Kovac made the cut for me because he was our Ivica Olic with skill. A defensive midfielder that scores goals? The guy was a rock in defense. Remember when he went out injured against Brazil in World Cup 2006. Minutes later, I believe it was Leko was out of position leaving an open Kaka to score the games lone goal. Just one instance as to why Niko made the cut for me.
Antonio Seric and RKovac/Simic/NKovac on the same level? Send me some of that shit you’re smoking.
Zoran Mamic? hahahaha
@Allen,
You shouldn’t judge Olic on one game.
@Armada87,
“Prosinecki (most technically gifted player ever to put on our kit)”
I agree with that statement. There was no one that had ball control like Robbie. He just missed my cut as “Elite”
@JerseyCro,
The title of the article has a question mark. I think the topic is definitely debatable. However, Olic just barely makes the 2nd level in my book.
@dinamoDennis,
Yes, Prso might be on that list. However, only 32 caps and the only meaningful goal that he scored was against France at Euro2004. He just misses the cut for me.
@MB13,
Boban and Suker are 1 and 2 in my opinion. One might be slightly better than the other.
@Armada87,
11 Kranjcars on the squad? Thats a nightmare.
@Slavonac,
You make a good argument on Prosinecki being “elite”. I wouldnt be against putting him in that class.
You are right about Simic. I dont remember much about Simic in his prime (98-2002) but wouldnt put him as “legend’ status besides his 100 caps. Level 2 alongside Robert Kovac.
@ Shinobi – well said! I agree with you!
Ivcia Olic has to be mentioned in the higher echelon of players to put on the checks, but to say he is a legend is a bit exaggerated.
The guy has to be admired for his never say die workhorse additude, his memorable (never amazing) goals in some very important games, his ability to do the little things, little things that players like eg: kranjcar view performing such menial tasks as beneath them.
He has been an integral part of the post 98 generation squad, and i firmly believe without him they would not have been as competitive as they have been.
But the word legend is thrown around too frequently nowadays. To attain a legend status you need to achieve or succeed in feat that are thought of outside the realm of possibility, an achievement that will live on in the memories forever. And im affraid olic and his generation of players havent done this.
That is why i view and only view the pivotal role players in the 98 success as legends.
And as far as elites go there are only three that i can truly say are/were elite players for the checks. And they are 1. Davor Suker 2. Zvonimir Boban 3. Robert Prosinecki
Olic is not the kind of legend we think of like Suker and Boban…but in my books, this guy is a legend and an inspiration for many people Croatian or not. I remember back when he was first brought into the NT…I was a fan immediately and amongst my friends and circle I was his only fan. everyone thought I was nuts, I worked with a few Hrvati who said for someone who seems to know enough about the game…I completelt discredited myself supporting Olic…well…I think I proved them all wrong! Olic is a legend to a mans heart, the epitomy of good and honest hard work…he put his team first and his own ego second…he was laughed at and he even said it in an interview a few years back …people made fun of him…I love Olic…oh and btw…I think he’s also a Slavonac!
Petar Krpan is a legend above all legends
ummmm…Denis Svircic and Ante K – you’re kinda off on your assessments guys. first and foremost, Prosinecki not on the first ballot? Boksic not on the first ballot…do you guys remember Boksic…his accomplishments and records? Ante K, this topic is great so thanks for that but do a little more homework before categorizing world class players as second class…even Simic was a standard player on a world class team…he was reliable and tough…if you consider Niko and Robert Kovac over the 3 I just mentioned I think you were clearly too young to realize how awesome Boksic, Prosinecki and Simic were.
**the dude does small things that don’t show up on scoresheets and has been doing those things since 2002***
@ Allen
I didn’t get a chance to read your post until coming back to this article, but to echo Pintar, I think some of your opinion is tied too much to recent games and I’m not sure how old you are, but part of the reason he’s definitely close to being a legend is that aside from ‘running around like a man man’, the dude does small things that don’t show up on scoresheets; the pressure he puts on an opponents backline really opens it up for our midfield and other strikers. We need a player like that on our squad – cause lets face it and I know you have a man crush on him, but if we had a bunch of Niko Kranjcars on our squad, who half ass it around the pitch, especially on defense, we would get smoked on the regular by teams who had more speed. Fact is between those intangibles he brings, along with close to 80 caps and almost 20 goals, Ivica has to be mentioned among the better Croatian players in our history.
In terms of playing ability, there is only one legend: Davor Suker
Everybody else is one notch below.
Who else could score this goal with the stakes as high as they were?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5epASGudFs
Olic? He has provided a great career to the national team scoring some memorable goals and making some terrible misses. Legend? No. Memorable? Yes.
Olic is not even close to elite….now way he can be considered a ledgend! ANd surley Prso deserves a mention on some sort of level..
Also, to those of you criticizing the article itself . . . Of course it’s a good article. The topic itself has been a point of contention in this community for as long as this site has been running. Argue what you will about Olic but it doesn’t personally make any sense to me to criticize the concept of the argument itself. It’s clearly a divisive issue here. Ante knows that and wanted to generate discussion.
No question he is. There are only a handful of Croatian players you can place above him. This isn’t comparing him to all international players, but all Croatians to have played. He’s right up there. How many have made his impact at a big club level? You’ve also got a relatively limited sample size and time period in which to judge (compared to most nations).
Allen, your vitriol over one game undermines your argument (and is probably a by-product of your youth, to be honest). Also, please name every Croatian striker you place above him. I’m suggesting there aren’t many.
Also lets remember, Olic is part of a generation of players which has exited the group stage of major competitions more than progressed and since WC 2008 only won one match at a major tournament until 2008…I can’t consider any of the players from that generation legends, maybe Niko Kovac, but the list ends there
how can he be a legend when he hasn’t won shit? I’m sorry, but you can’t throw around the word “legend” that losely. His biggest achievement was making the QF of the Euros and scoring a goal against Italy in the World Cup, lets not talk about the misses which cost us three points in Euro 2004
I’m sorry, usually support this site, but this is one of the more dumb articles
@ Dinko
Dovani Roso lol theres a name I haven’t heard in a while… Croatian legend for sure haha is he living in Israel now?
In regards to the discussion – I think each of us will have different rankings (and I think a good side project from this would be for Team CSR and the posters to nominate the top 20 NT players of all time) based on our personal favorites on certain players
Elite wise – I’d chose Suker, Boban, Niko Kovac, Prosinecki (most technically gifted player ever to put on our kit) and I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say, once his career is over, Darijo Srna will me considered Elite. I think he’ll pass Simic as the all time caps leader sometime in 2013 and eventually he’ll distance himself a bit from Dudu and be #2 on the all time scoring list. Personality wise, I was never a huge fan, but the guy will be one of our longest serving captains, once he hangs’em up, he’ll be the all time caps leader and 2nd all time leading scorer – pretty solid resume if you ask me, no matter what you think of him personally.
Olic is a notch below the above mentioned group. Dude busts his ass for the repka, has scored some huge goals (as well as plenty of ‘Ivica Olic’ tap in goals). Personally, I was never a huge fan of him but eventually I loved him for the intangibles he brought to the table; he was never finesse, always came across as a bit of a smotan but the way he hustles and causes fits for the opposing defenses is something you can never really calculate. Let the Ivica Olic type goals keep coming (hopefully into EC 2012) and let the haters keep hating!
Turkey with a good five misses in that game made it for Olic. Then his horrible World Cup qualifying performances had to be remembered. This guy could run and shed blood all he wants but in the end, his production is beyond crap and he does little on the pitch in terms of actual ability.
If Ivica Olic is considered elite, something is wrong with the world. The man isn’t a legend but an absolute choke artist like he showed against Turkey. Still one of my hated players known to date. Unless he scores in the Euro Cup to help Croatia win a big game, the pain from that Turkey game will forever live on. I don’t give a damn about the playoff round and Olic scoring. He cost us in arguably the biggest game since 1998 for Croatia in the 2008 Euro Cup quarterfinals. Olic in the level four is a bona fide joke. I don’t know how these rankings work on levels but it’s beyond stupid just like this article about putting this man as a legend. Congrats you run like a mad man, it’s the only thing right you seem to do. i can’t wait for Olic to just go away, it will be for the better.
Fuck You @Denis Svircic
what the hell about your level status .
Elite: Davor Suker, Alen Boksic, Zvonimir Boban
level 4: Aljosa Asanovic, Prosinecki, R.Jarni, Drazen Ladic, Zvonimir Soldo, Igor Stimac, Goran Vlaovic
Level 3: Dario Simic, R.Kovac, Milan Rapaij, Niko Kovac,
Igor Biscan, Slaven Bilic, Luka Modric, Ivica Olic , Igor Tudor
Antonio Seric, Goran Juric, Mario Stanic, Vedran Corluka
Level 2: Niko Kranjcar, Eduardo DaSiva, Mladen Petric, Darijo Srna, Ivan Klasnic, Stipe Pletikosa, Zoran Mamic
Level 1: (etc) who has a chance to Croatia National team.
Giovani Rosso = Legend
Excellent post and nice little preview leading up to the Euro. A post or two per month like this should get us going for the tournament.
Here is how I will answer this question. Bill Simmons, a writer for ESPN wrote the “Basketball Bible”… The Book of Basketball. In this book, he breaks down the top 80 or so NBA players of all time. Simmons groups the players in 5 categories. Level one, two, three, four, and elite status. So this is what I will do.
Got into another argument with Fisto… so let me clarify…
(This is my list of Croatian players, taking only their performance for Croatia into consideration. This is not a legends list. The only legends in my opinion are “elite class”.)
Elite: Zvonimir Boban, Davor Suker, Niko Kovac
Level 4: Robert Kovac, Robert Prosinecki, Aljosa Asanovic, Alen Boksic, Ivica Olic
Level 3: Zvonimir Soldo, Slaven Bilic, Luka Modric, Goran Vlaovic, Eduardo, Dario Simic
Level 2: Drazen Ladic, Igor Stimac, Robert Jarni
Level 1: Joe Simunic, Darijo Srna, Ivan Klasnic, Mladen Petric, Niko Kranjcar, Miki Rapajic, Mario Stanic,
Now it depends where your cut off is for “Croatian Legend”. After chatting with Fisto about this I agree with him that No one else can be mentioned in the same sentence with Boban, Suker and Niko Kovac.
Robert Kovac in my opinion was the best Croatian defender. Robert led our defense through tough times after Suker and Vlaovic retired. We played more defensively, because offensively we sucked.
Prosinecki doesnt get that “elite” status because he’s only represented Croatia 40 something times.
Asanovic played his position perfectly but I think Niko Kovac had him beat.
Boksic scored against Serbia in a must win qualifier in Zagreb, scored in Kiev in a playoff to qualify us for WC98 and scored against Belgium at Maksimir to take us to WC 2002. However, only managed to represent Croatia in one tournament at WC2002 well past his prime. One of the great talents ever to come out of Croatia, however, Alen misses the cut due to injury.
Ivica Olic, the guy would give blood on the pitch if he could. Scored so many “right place at the right time goals”. However, I dont remember him scoring a goal for Croatia that blew me away. I dont remember me seeing Olic score a goal ala Davor Suker taking on two defenders and then slipping the ball through the legs of a defender and into the back of the net. There will never be another Ivica Olic. However, he wasn’t good enough to be mentioned in the “elite class”
Drazen Ladic, had a great WC98 with lots of luck. However, he sucked in 1998 WC qualifying, sucked in Euro 2000 qualifying.. I dont remember much of Euro 96. This is why he slips down a few grades.
Dukic hit it on the head in my opinion. His heart is what puts him over the top for me. He’s made the big goals in the big games, and I’ll always remember him for that.
Jedan nula! That’s all I hear when I think of him now. Legend.
legenda! jedini igrac sto imamo sto ima srce iz 98! volim te olicu!
This is a tough one. On paper the answer is absolutely NOT! The guy only scores a goal for Croatia once every 5 games. That’s pretty bad. Looking back at the stats, the injury to Eduardo absolutely killed Croatia. Dudu has scored 22 goals for CRO in 44 games. That’s exactly 1 every 2 games.
Olic has scored some pretty memorable goals though. He never stops running. He puts pressure on opposing defenses. He does funny stuff.
I think in the end, Olic is likable, therefore he is memorable…therefore it is easier for him to own legend status.
I don’t know, I’m just mad about the Eduardo injury. Fuck….the things he coulda done.
Olic is a croatian legend in my books, for hrvatska & for his clubs alike (bayern munich 2010 champions league not to mention what he did in the bundesliga). The man has heart & hustle
<3 u Olic! you are a legend