ESPN Soccernet has reported that Croatian FA president, Vlatko Marković, has gone on record saying that Luka Modrić’s injury on the weekend was deliberate and is pointing his finger at an English conspiracy.
I’m close to thinking it was done to us deliberately before the England match. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw what happened to Luka. He is irreplaceable. -Marković
I think for most of us Croatians, there was a little voice in the back of our heads saying that this Modrić injury was quite ironic and maybe the English actually did have something to do with it; after Eduardo’s injury and all. However, our mouths would never let this little voice speak. Well, Marković just let the little birdie loose and I couldn’t be more embarrassed for him.
Not only did the foul look tame, but Modrić walked off the field under his own power and even said later that is was a complete fluke accident. He was very humble about it. It’s not as if the Birmingham player Lee Bowyer came in studs up.
Obviously we have had a very intense rivalry with England the past two years; and we hit them where it hurt last time around. However, I would take the high road on this one and win the game at Wembley straight up. No trash talk, no dirty tackles. Just straight up beat England in their own house so they know that last campaign wasn’t a fluke.
The only thing I see Marković doing here is trying to cause a lot of drama and trash talk before the game where emotions will be running high. That’s definitely an advantage for the Croatians. If that should happen and the match is a ‘card fest’ and gets out of control, I hope Šimunić breaks Rooney’s leg. I know that’s low but I can’t stand the guy.
Then we can talk about REAL conspiracy from this little ‘inferior’ country called Croatia.
Here’s what Birmingham City chairman Gold had to say about the Marković remarks.
Lets face it does Croatia really have such good coaches. Otto Baric, Zlatko Kranjcar, Ciro Blazevic and Mirko Jozic are amongst the most proven, but after that there few others that had much success, especially abroad. The only one missing who never selected is Tomislav Ivic and Sergio Kresic has done alright in Spain, but he seems to be more a Spaniard now than a Croat. We don't even have a good under 21 side manager. Even Zvonimir Soldo has started off poor in Cologne and prob showed he never really proved himself in Croatia. I actually think after this campaign we have to appoint a foriegn coach and i don't think Markovic should make the decision. Markovic likes cheap and cheerful and will prob appoint Branko Ivankovic.
Kranjcar was one or two decisions from a good side. Basically Jerko Leko for Tudor should have fixed it and Modric for out of condition Kranjcar. That was also the point where Klasnic's health was on the down turn and Prso was past his best.
2006: Pletikosa, Simic, R Kovac, Tudor, Simunic; Srna, N Kovac, Modric, Babic/ Kranjcar; Prso, Olic/ Klasnic
I think our strike force was lacking a bit in 2006, but he could have done much better. He seemed to think Niko could do everything in midfield and gave him little help with any creativity along side him. He also could have cut Babic and Srna some work by going 4-4-2. It was bizarre cos he actually fielded Modric against Argentina when he played great and then didn't make the brave decision on the big night. As for Eduardo i'm afraid i don't agree with that. We're saying this in hindsight. All Croatia was in love with Prso then and didn't even think about Eduardo. Bosnjak also outscored Eduardo at Dinamo that season. Bosnjak however ended up being used as a sub in midfield.
Basically here we have a load of coaches who did the right things in qualifying, but went crackers on the final tournament. I don't think Markovic can be blamed for that. What Markovic can be blamed for is the rather sinister side of HNL, players agents and wrong people on boards of clubs and also for that wall that killed Hjorve Custic. Is that still there by the way?
Argentina and Holland coaches all lost the plot as well on the final tournament so we're not on our own here.
All those coaches seemed to freak out at the last minute. They all changed their line ups at the last minute and went looney. Its like they were lying in their bed at night before that and confused themselves overthinking.
Kranjcar was fine till he suddenly came out with Tudor in central midfield, plus he had Jerko Leko who he could have used. Baric was also quite good for Croatia till it came the big day. He deserves credit for the way he tore up his script half way through the campaign and brought in Prso, T Maric and Srna and improved the side.
In the final tournament – personally i am a fan of Tomo Sokota and didn't think he did all that much wrong, but he barely got the ball. Sokota has no pace though so everything needs feeding to him. We should have played Klasnic and put Sokota on bench. But lets face it Baric can;t do anything when Olic misses an open goal against Switzerland. Also Baric went wierd with Srna. He was brave to put him in qualifying and everything was all fine and then he took him out for Rosso. Diovani Rosso actually was regarded as high quality player in Israel, but his position was just basically floating and doing what he liked. There was no room for him though in the team Croatia wanted to play. He should have played for Isreal.
Mornar shouldn;t have been a Croatia player, but it was made even worse when Baric played him on the wing ahead of Srna. That was just embarrasing. Mornar if anything is a striker and that's all. Got no idea how Baric concluded he may be able to do right wing. As for Bjelica's his call up was questionable as he was called up when he had a couple of months of good play during 3 years of mainly rubbish play at Kaiserslautern. He was well past it as well by time we called him. Baric's ultimate masterstroke was Zivkovic in central mid against England.
2004 – Pletikosa, Simic, R Kovac, Simunic/ Tudor, Zivkovic; Srna, N Kovac, Leko, Rapaic/ Babic; Prso, Klasnic/ Olic
To me Baric could have done more with this team. As bench players all those guys like Sokota, Bjelica, Rosso could have been useful, so that really was a coaching error.
Mirko Jozic's i'd say had the least quality in his squad. To many defensive players and too many over the hill.
2002: Pletikosa, Simic, Zivkovic, Kovac, Simunic; Stanic, N Kovac, Soldo, Prosinecki/ Rapajic; Boksic, Olic/ Vugrinec/ Vlaovic
That's the best team i can think of regards Jozic. He SHOULD 100% have called up Tomislav Maric. He went with too many oldies. Suker should have stepped aside gracefully as he wasn't playing much football and his legs had gone. Jarni also was a class act. Prob one of the very best left sided players in the world. But by time he reached Las Palmas his lung bursting runs down the wing were long gone. He just became mediocre once the pace had gone. Also if you look at that midfield he's got major problems as he has no attack minded central mid. His side was either fundamentally too old or too defensive. Baric actually did well to freshen it up. Jozic has Soldo, Prosinecki, Suker, Jarni, Boksic all unfit that just wilted in the heat. Jozic's selection however was terrible. I think he prob made the worse coaching decisions.
@ 800 years – Do you read Chomsky or Zinn?
oops, double post
@ Ante Kvartuč
Funny how you mention Croatia being a developing country where money is of the utmost importance. Money before pride, before common sense, and before morality..unfortunately.
Which reminds me (if any of you can confirm, please do):
Didn't Markovic promise each NT player 250,000 euros (give or take a little )if Croatia won Euro last summer? Where would the money have come from?
Instead of going into the player's pockets, why can't money like that be put towards developing the youth system in Croatia (God knows our inability to compete at the U15 and U17 levels are going to catch up with us in the next few years), and even building/renovating our poor training facilities and stadiums to keep young talent within the country instead of going abroad with their families before they reach their teenage years.
@ Ante Kvartuč
Funny how you mention Croatia being a developing country where money is of the utmost importance. Money before pride, before common sense, and before morality..unfortunately.
Which reminds me (if any of you can confirm, please do):
Didn't Markovic promise each NT player 250,000 euros (give or take a little )if Croatia won Euro last summer? Where would the money have come from?
Instead of going into the player's pockets, why can't money like that be put towards developing the youth system in Croatia (God knows our inability to compete at the U15 and U17 levels are going to catch up with us in the next few years), and even building/renovating our poor training facilities and stadiums to keep young talent within the country instead of going abroad with their families before they reach their teenage years.
@ Slaven,
I think all of us combined on CSR know more about Croatian football, absolutely! Markovic only has power and relationships to help out his own cause. Remember that Croatia is still all about money as we are still a developing country. I don't even want to think about the corruption that goes on in the HNS and HNL as it would make my head spin.
We and ziva Istina would run it logically and for pride of country- not for a healthy bank account.
Who knows better than the hardcore fan? I can walk in their with Denis and Prva Generacija and we would wow them with our knowledge. However Croatia is still about picking favorite players over the right ones. (And I have a story about Peter Hazdovac and Croatia Sesvete to share with you on that note.)
Of course we would never walk into the Savez, as this is all hypothetical anyways, but it's all about power and money in the end still. Markovic will give up his power when he dies.
Why didn't the other coaches play the younger guys….who knows? there is no gaurentee any of those other guys would have performed better. Most coaches are afraid to use younger kids? Its a valid point, but we have all seen coaches who are afraid to use the young player unless he is some wonderkid. I'm sure all those guys wanted to keep their jobs and relied on the talent they knew about instead of playing the talent they were unsure about. In the end it is easy to say the younger kids should have played.
As for kranjcar being the national team coach….I was not against him as the coach. Yes, he is a drunk and those tales are well knows. But, I think he is an excellent coach. Since the break up of Yugo, Dinamo and Hajduk have won every title except for one year. Zagreb won it and guess who was the coach for that team…Kranjcar. he had Olic and some other players on that squad, but to be the only coach to win a title in the HNL outside of maksimir and Poljus is impressive and at the time kranjcar was probably the right hire.
@Ziva I agree with you that Bilic has put trust in young talented players. Why didn't Baric do it? We had Srna, Klasnic, and talented Rapajic on the bench. If these guys played instead of Bjelica, Rosso, and Sokota we have a different team. Boksic and Jarni were 32 in the 2002 WC and not in great form. I disagree that we didn't have the quality. I think Baric and Jozic were bitches and it showed by our play on the field. They chose experience over youth and that was a huge mistake in those 2 tournaments. Its also well known that Zlatko Kranjcar is a major alcoholic. Why would you let a guy that drinks a bottle of rakija a day lead your national team? Do you think that Niko was ready to lead the national team as the #10 being so young? Niko has matured greatly since the WC and Slaven has found a great role for him out wide. Also, if Tudor was put in the back against Austrlia instead of Tudor I'm confident we would have beaten them. These are major tactical mistakes. The only coaches I've agreed with hiring was Blazevic and Slaven Bilic. Ciro is a legend and he's doing a great job with Bosnia at the moment. You can't deny 3rd place at the WC being the greatest achievement in Croatian soccer. Slaven is from a new modern soccer era unlike Baric and Jozic. Right now we need to figure out a way to qualify for the WC. In addition, we must think of who will lead the Vatreni after Bilic. This current generation has much to prove and I hope that the savez chooses the right people to lead them.
2002, 2004 and 2006…..we did not have enough quality to deserve a 2nd appearance. We did not outplay Mexico or Ecudor in 02, granted the red card did not help. If we cant get by those two teams we have no reason going forward.
04….bad coach, bad results. lack of quality.
06….we were doomed when we could not beat Japan or Australia. Unable to win against teams from the Asia/pacific region while playing on european soil shows me we lacked quality to advance. We played with heart in that tounrey, but we were not worthy og going. As for Da Silva and not being on the roster. big deal, even if he was on the roster he would not have played. Nobody would have know at that point that he would have become the player that he is.
For all the knocks Slaven Bilic takes, he is the one you brought youth to this team. We might critize him for bringing in Juric or not giving this player a chance, but he is the guy that Corluka, Da Silva and Modric credit for raising their skill level.
Compare the 08 Euro team or our team now when healthy, we are much much btter than any of those teams in 02,04, and 06. Markovic could have hired Capello and I doubt he would have gotten better results.
Plus, the qualifying process is much different than the tournament stage. Injuries and cards at the tournament stage mean you have to make adjustments quickly, within days, as opposed to a few months to prepare for the next match.
Ivica Mornar, Giovanni Rosso, Mario Tokic, Ante Seric, Marijo Maric, Nenad Bjelica……..those are some of the names from the 02,04,06 teams….again, qualifying for those tourneys was an accomplishment.
@zivaistina We have been dominant in qualifying groups since Euro 96. I'm arguing that maybe Markovic didn't pick the right coaches to lead those national sides. I believe that we underachieved at major tournaments.
WC 2002
Possibly the worst game Croatia has ever played horribly against Mexico and losing 1-0 because of a Zivkovic foul in the box. We managed to beat Italy 2-1 as we normally do to set up a deciding game with Ecuador. If we beat Ecuador we advance and we end up losing 1-0. As I mentioned before Boksic and Jarni should not even come to this tournament. They should have retired and hurt us by playing.
Euro 2004
It was Otto Baric(Euro 2004) who said that he didn't have good players to choose from and started each game with 6 defenders. Tomislav Sokota was starting while Klasnic didn't even get a minute of playing time while in his prime at Werder. Srna and Rapajic also received barely any minutes because Baric preferred to go with older more defensive players as you mentioned Rosso and Bjelica. We couldn't even beat Switzerland that tournament. We tied France because of 2 horrible mistakes by Tudor and lead against England 1-0. Mornar missed a sitter against France in the final minutes.
WC 2006
We played a solid game against Brazil and lost 1-0 because of Kaka's brilliance. Then, a very unconvincing performance against Japan where Srna misses a pk so it ends 0-0. After that we are leading 2 times against Australia and manage to salvage a 2-2 tie. We tie the game with Tomas trying to catch every ball kicked to him and Tudor missing sitters 5 yards from the goal. One hand ball by Tomas was called and the other was not. I'm still trying to figure out what he was doing. Da Silva did not even make the roster as horrible Ivan Bosnjak was coming of the bench and doing nothing.
You are telling me that none of these teams could have advanced to the second round. I believe you are mistaken Mr. Istina. In 2002 and 2006 we advance with a win on gameday 3. @Ziva is talking like we went to these tournaments and lost all 3 games badly. I believe our coaches did not do a great job of picking players and strategy. Maybe Markovic chose the wrong coaches. I think we had 3 great tournaments Euro 96, WC 98, and Euro 08 but 4 nightmare tournaments. The problem is that many of our coaches to play proven old players rather than up and coming young players. Everyone was asking themselves what will happen after WC 06. Modric, Da Silva, and Corluka became key players instantly and changed our team. I wish we had faith in younger players in those other tournaments. As @dinamofan says Boban should come into Markovic's position. He's intelligent, modern, and was part of the greatest Croatian team ever. Boban is well respected and he will do a great job. I'm not saying its going to be easy but there must be a change soon. The last person I want to see there is Stimac. His intentions are #1 money #2 the good of Croatian soccer. He needs to stay away.
I think Markovic has played the game at least, but 73 is retirement age so he should step aside. I think we could have someone even worse than him potentially. Stimac to me seems worse. We need someone detached from clubs, who played the game and has the support of the people. Perhaps someone like Zvonimir Boban thats not involved with a HNL club though don't know why he'd want the hassle. The problem in HNS and domestic football are deep i'm arrived. Its why someone like Davor Suker would want to invest time in Buducnost Podgorica than his home NK Osijek.
@Vatreni….. Qualifying for every major tourney since 98 with the exception of the 2000 Euro is a major accomplishment. Until Euro 2008 we DID NOT have the talent to advance into the 2nd round in any of those tounreys. We had players Giovanni Rosso playing the national team. That should tell you something.
Croatia has produced enough talent to qualify for these tourneys, but we do not have enough talent to make it further (until now).
While i am not a fan of markovic, the problem lies under him and with the people who run the clubs and their close ties to agents or even acting as agents.
Here is on example….Ivica Mornar, one a Hajduk player, becamse sporting director at hajduk, but at the same time was an agent for some of the younger players at hajduk. An immediate conflict of interest…and this goes on with other clubs. mamic has a ton of players who belong to his agency and he manages the day-to-day activities at dinamo. Again, conflict of interest.
Anyone that comes in and tries to clean things out will be met with resistance and obstacles.
Ante, that's just disappointing for you to say you'd rather have an internet troll who's never even played the game to take over Markovic's job. Markovic spoke what was not only on his mind, but all of our minds too and you go and take him to the cleaners for it. Hypocritical. And don't even deny that what he said crossed your mind. Take all of the facts and really think hard about it.
I'm also looking forward to seeing Anas Sharbini in a Croatia shirt. Its hightime for some new players. Its time to bring through the new Luka Modric 'Milan Badelj' so we can stop worrying when a key guy gets injured. Regards Eduardo we also can't blame England for that as we should have found a solution. We definitely should have found a way to beat Ukraine without Eduardo. That's what's cost us at the moment. Not the defeat against England. Yes i agree highlight corruption wherever it exists, but also regards the team Bilic should get his house in order at the same time. Markovic is allowed to raise the matter, but not Bilic. Bilic should get on with proving we're not a one man team.
Its not defeatism to raise the conspiracy theory. Its giving England one in the eye back. Now they are suddenly feeling like they are being highlighted as cheats. Its fun. Some on that isle have cheated Eduardo and Bowyer injured Modric. That dive/ fall is one of a million dives but suddenly we have this whole new banning scheme which even UEFA self confessed was by Brits. And who do they conveniently highlight Eduardo.
We're far from giving up. It just requires some tinkering. If we don't make it i definitely won't blame Bowyer for injuring Modric. I'd blame Bilic for not getting the tactics right if he does something wrong. If we play our best team and lose then we'll hold our hands up and say fair enough, we have to improve. Nobody is giving up, but first we must beat Belarus. England later..
@ Vatreni
I can't disagree with your accounting of the facts, as you listed 1,2,3,4, above… but i think you left out a few important one's…
5)There are now 6 Croatian National Team players, in the EPL, as opposed to "zero" prior to being coupled in qualification groups with them.
6) We outclassed them at home in Wembley, to ruin their Euro 2006 party.
7) We got their coach fired. We beat them so bad that it forced them to "eat crow" and bring in a foreigner to coach the team. And not Sven Goran Erikson, rather an Italian from our neck of the woods.
8) They in turn got revenge in our home, at Maksimir, and ended our historical undefeated streak, which also gave them the upper hand in WC qualification.
9) So what's our next move then…, after all, we have have the chessboard on our chest's not them…?
@ Dinamofan
Well said!
Shit man, I learned more about Croatian soccer today more then ever before. Thanx CSR!!! LMAO
No worries Ante, thank you! I'm really enjoying the dialogue here today, and if nothing else it proves that as Croatian men, our hearts are definitely in the right place.
One final thought in regard to conspiracy, which I think may be interesting to some… if you look at the etymology of the word conspiracy, I believe that it derives from the latin… "conspirere"… which literally means "to breath together".
In this sense, any that are united (as we obviously all are), are conspiring against those that are not united. And it doesn't really matter whether such unity is tacit, explicit, or otherwise.
In the modern sense, and as I think we are using it here today, to conspire means to "scheme", "plan", "cheat" etc., willfully and in a premeditated fashion, against another, for your own advantage.
Perhaps this is happening to Croatian footballers, via the scheming Englishmen. I really don't know for sure, and neither do any of you. But I feel it's dangerous to "believe" in such things, as it serves to "give your power away" to some unseen enemy that's fucking with the program.
If the players on the national team believe Markovic (if indeed he said those things… then again maybe that's part of the conspiracy too!), then why would the team even bother trying to overcome the English conspiracy?
Surely, the English are richer, more populous, more connected, and more powerful than us, so how could we possibly beat them?
Do you see what I mean here?
It's defeatist! This applies on a personal level too. Why would I bother trying to improve myself and my career etc., when the Harvard MBA will always have an advantage? Anyway, in my view, the best way to "nowheresville" in life, is to blame all of your ills on others. It's the easiest thing to do. This is what I see from Markovic's purported comments, and that's not what I would consider leadership.
When we get on the field, it's 11 men "breathing together", against 11 other men. Who's more together, who's more united, who's on the same page, who has confidence, who's better trained, who wants it?
Anyway, certainly I'm blowing this out of proportion, but as a Hrvat man, I've seen this attitude time and again, and frankly I'm a little weary of such defeatism. I mean think about it. There's what, 10 million of "us" on the entire planet of some 6 Billion people. Do the math, we're a spit in the ocean, yet we stand tall, and excel, and demand respect.
Imagine what we could do, if we didn't have a defeatist streak too! That's all that I'm trying to say.
Basically i think we should let this lie now, but its good someone said something. Although Markovic is now saying he didn't say it, the fact its out there is a good thing. If there is some truth in the coincidences then it at least lets them know their victories are tainted. Not that they'd be that bothered. Its a country after all that sweeps Haisel under the carpet. However its good Croatia said something.
Croatia of course has its corruption problems, but in England any bad thing they do is hidden. I would say definitely Eduardo incidence is about unsettling Croatia cos basically diving is one yellow card – its not two match ban. This is something totally knew UEFA has come out with here and some have even admitted it was driven through by British members on UEFA. Eduardo will just smile and accept it. He knows corruption goes on. Wenger also knows what these people do. Regards Modric, i'm not letting Bowyer off cos his demeanour is all wrong in that tackle. The only thing you can say is that he is a rough person and put in a personally over zealous tackle that was all about his own personal agression issues rather about benefitting England. I would also say that Modric needs to be aware. One week before the important match you don't go into a 50-50 with Lee Bowyer. There are certain things you can do – Eduardo should not be going down so easy and getting himself into that situation as he's playing into corrupt peoples hands. Wenger pointed out Messi's headbut on Srna, but did UEFA do anything, absolutely not.
However basically we've pointed it out. Hopefully personally we'll be more aware next time. We should just go back to preparation. Its not about them hating us, its about mind games with your main opponent and sneaking an advantage where you can. Something tells me the 1998 squad would not have taken this like the current squad. I actually think our current squad is pretty soft. The Kovac elbow was more like when a German gets mad. And as for Simunic he could fit perfectly into the agressive Aussie side. The Croats in the team need to toughen up and stop letting a team like England pick their pocket. The English have done things all over the world, so Croatia needs to wake up and just be aware of whats out there for them.
@Vlad Markovic is turning 73 years old in January and Zorislav Srebric is 69. How much longer will these guys be in charge? Do we honestly have to wait till they die?
We've qualified for 6 of the last 7 major tournaments. This may make some people happy but not myself. Since 1998 it took us 10 years to qualify for the second round of a major tournament. I wasn't a big fan of how the national played when Baric and Jozic were coaching. Also, Croatia was not impressive in the 2006 WC. Some people say we didn't have the talent to do anything in those tournaments. Bullshit! Croatia always have talent but Baric and Jozic had no confidence in our team and it showed on the field. In many cases the coaches were choosing the wrong players. I remember Baric forcing Bjelica, Rosso, and Sokota while Klasnic and Srna rode the bench. Jozic was forcing Jarni and Boksic when they should have retired already. We may have qualified for those tournaments but you prove how good you are on the big stage. Maybe Markovic didn't pick the right coaches to lead us at these tournaments. We've proven over the years that our teams have quality but I always expect more. Who will coach the national team after Bilic leaves? I'll be honest with you I would rather have Boban, Asanovic, and Prosinecki choose over Markovic. Its time for Vlatko and Zorislav to go. Croatia needs to think about the future of our soccer.
The Mafia will always be a problem and how do we know what type of relationship Markovic has with Stimac, Mamic, and Sinovcic. As long as these characters are representing our top players the savez will have to deal with these clowns. I've heard of many national team coaches who like money. You may think this sounds crazy but many national team coaches and organizations except money from players and agents. I have some friends that play top level soccer and others who are close friends with past national team coaches from different countries. Players/agents pay coaches to play so it raises their value. Once they they are sold the savez/coach gets a percentage of the transfer. Where is Ivan Bosnjak? I'm not going to accuse Zlatko Kranjcar/Markovic of anything. I just think its kind of funny that Bosnjak was coming off the bench at the 2006 WC to be sold shortly after to Genk for 4 million euro. After that he was never even mentioned as a national team candidate.
@ Slaven,
Yes I would feel more comfortable with Ziva Istina at the head of the HNS rather than this old fart Markovic. Istina's soccer knowledge is profound and deep. What you call pessimistic, I call realistic- but don't get me wrong, he can hit the extremes as well.
I would also put dinamofan:) in charge of Dinamo or the HNL, whatever he preferred. This guy has ridiculous soccer knowledge and I'm glad he's finally hopped on the CSR team.
As for JP, 800yrs., Ante BBB.
You guys were solid today. I've never heard such sophisticated talk when Croatia/War/Soccer were all put together in the same discussion.
Welcome again 800yrs. I think I speak for all of us on CSR when I say that we hope to hear from you again in the near future.
As for all of you that I have mentioned above as well as the rest of Prva Generacija (PG), you guys are all on top of your game. When it comes to critical debates and controversial topics like the Markovic post above, you are all thorough and deep in your analysis. All of you have incredible soccer knowledge, both Croatian and abroad.
I know I'm the co-creator/administrator of CSR, but you guys are on top of your shit here. It almost gets intimidating leaving comments these days because people will call you out on it. Don't get me wrong- I love it. Catching up with everyone's comments when I wake up in the morning is one of the things I look forward to in my day.
Prva Generacija has come a long way since its inception and you guys have seriously become a Croatian debate team. I wouldn't want to mess with you guys; say if I was ItalianSoccerReport.com because you would shred them to pieces.
If we ever all get together in person, the first round of drinks is on me.
I dont know weather or not their was any conspiracy, nor am i a markovic fan, but i say to all those haters, what was the big deal in what he said. Do we always have sit back and take from behind by the english. He is the head of the savez and he is speaking his mind, should we be scared of what the english media will think. They can't stand croatia they dont like the idea we even exist which we all know, why must we take the high rode. Da silva dives and know all english media go on a witch hunt on the guy give me a break. Kovac gets a unfair red card and on top of that a ban for four games, i dont think terry would have been treated the same.
As for Vatreni: once again i will say i am not the biggest markovic fan, but what should he do, you say he shoould give money to HNL, who should he give money too Mamic, stimac, sinovcic and all the other mafia crooks that run the league, do you honestly think boban could make a diffrence, what would boban do walk up to the old boys club that run that league and tell them how to spend their money, mamic would tell him where to go. I dont like markovic and i agree in everything you say but croatia dosent run that way. And for a country that is ran by crooks in all areas, markovic hasent done a bad job, you have to think most men in his position from croatia would have done alot worse, were in the top 10 we have imported alot of players over the years and we are a popular soccer nation. ya i agree we need to develop our players and get better facilities but thats no all in the savez power.
Conspiracies cannot be proven but there are some interesting facts in England's behavior towards Croatia.
1)Taylor breaking Eduardo's leg before Euro 2008
2)Suspending Eduardo for 2 Champion's League games(I understand they want to make an example but why a Croatian player when many players dive?)
3)Bowyer hurting Modric 10 days before a qualifier vs. England
4)HNS official Srebric being arrested at a London airport for shoplifting and being released
Whether these things have happened on purpose or not they are ridiculous. Both Croatian and English players are talented. It seemed like England really had something to prove in Zagreb. I know the first goal was unlucky but we didn't look great the first half. We must make a statement in England the first 20 minutes of the game. I believe the team with more heart will win. You make your own luck 🙂
bezigradac,
You could be right but I just think that Markovic is very upset (as we all are) and let his emotions get the best of him.
@ Ilija
markovic had every right to do so and i am totally on his side.
Although I found Markovic's statements to be rash I think he expressed out loudly some emotions that I myself felt yet kept to myself. When Eduardo went down with his terrible injury I felt like cursing English football and English players for "hunting down" Eduardo and deliberately injuring him. I think that type of reaction is normal at first until you give yourself time to cool down and think rationally. I think Markovic jumped the gun and spit out his emotions without thinking.
excuse me, do u remember when robert kovac got a red card for an accidental elbow to the head of whoever the fuck that was, and now luka modric fell to a foul that deserved a card, yellow or red. u dont call taht conspiracy???? eduardo, i mean seriously.
@ kvartuc, if we didnt lose eduardo for 08, we would have went farther. so dont tell me that this isnt conspiracy.
Simply being anything -or a member of the in-group – doesn't absolve your from moral judgment within or outside the group.
However, let it be known that Croats have far too long led the debate about morality, moralisation and moral judgment – directly to their own destruction.
I believe it was certain members of Croatian society, in politics and media, that prompted the "debate" over moral judgement, consequence, and, to be more specific, whether or not a Croat could be guilty of a war-crime, or crime during war, while defending/liberating one's own nation.
While that "debate" raged (as it does till this day), I saw the entire upper echelon of a victorious military locked up in Croatian jails or sent to The Hague. And I saw the paradigm shift.
Some, too, might call that a conspiracy theory. The only conspiracy theory I see is the the claim that there is no conspiracy. 😉 Now, it seems to me that while a debate was being held over whether or not one judgment makes everyone guilty, or one's guilt absolves the rest of moral damnation, a heinous crime and injustice had been perpetrated against the innocent (political crime, of course). Someone, or something, set up that scenario pretty damn well. Because a precedent has been set. The Croats truly are more Catholic than the Pope.
Now, it really wasn't my intention to get this "expansive," and really didn't want to travel this path, but I could think of no better example.
Concerning my "800yrs." comment: of course it was simplistic. I was not about to write a thesis on Croatian in-fighting and discord. I was simply trying to make a point. And if I had failed, and if I had evoked emotionally bitter responses or caused "harm" to any of the participants here, I do apologize.
Personally, I have come to appreciate our national character that you accurately described. We argue, bitch, moan and self-destruct (props to Ante Kvartuc, I liked that). That means there's a, khmm, healthy dialogue. lol And we're not all connected to the "matrix."
But we should keep our discord to ourselves and not make it a display for the rest of the world, rendering us easy prey. We need a common platform when facing the out-group, whomever they may be and at whatever time. Croatians usually achieve that common platform when staring into the barrel of a gun. That needs to change. And from that, and only from that, did arise my referencing of the English motto.
It's been a short pleasure. Continue your talking football. And I wish this web-site success.
Zivjeli.
cheaaaaaaaa i love my fans
Awesome, the return of Ciganski Bosnac!
All is right in this world again!
To BezigradacZD023….
shut the hell up cozetto kalamadetto … theres no conspiracy except the conspiracy of ur small D
@800
Definitely ostracism is not my intent. And you're right, the term "revisionist" has certainly been a tool of propagandists, but it's not my intent here. I for one welcome the repartee.
Certainly there is a part of football that reflects the national character/psyche/pride etc., and if football is a replacement for war then certainly it's a noteworthy victory/achievement for humanity overall.
I guess what I am getting at is that it's a little simplistic to say, as you did, that:
"You're precisely the reason we didn't have a state for over 800 years…We need to learn from the English – "RIGHT OR WRONG, MY PEOPLE" – that's an English motto for you."
If we didn't have some sort of state for the intervening 800 years, we certainly wouldn't have one today! Without going into the details, which most of you are probably aware, our history is riddled with envious attacks from outsiders, and in a way this has probably shaped our character somewhat.
I also think it's a dangerous kind of blindness/myopia to think that just because someone is Croatian they are absolved of all moral judgments from other Croats. If that's what the English purport, then I'm even happier not to be one.
Anyway, we're probably beating a dead konj here. I did like your point that we are a "revisionist" nation, reversing Yalta, Versailles etc. Witty.
Anyway, lets get back to football here… If we are this fired up about these latest events, then I can only imagine how motivated the national team is… this is a good sign in my mind, and yes Ante, I agree that we generally respond well when "our backs are against the wall", so I'm hopeful for the needed results in the upcoming games.
@Ante BBB
You took the words right out of my mouth.
"Go to England.
Win.
Game over."
Let the press have their stories, let Markovic run his mouth…he doesn't speak for the players. Let our game on the field do the talking.
We always, ALWAYS show up against the top teams in the world when all our chips are in and our backs are against the wall. That has constantly been in the back of my mind as I think about this game (not to overlook Belarus, an equally important game). Simple as that.
Let's give those nancys a f—ing good kickin!
I am Croat, and I'm a "revisionist." In most circles, branding someone a "revisionist" usually results in their ostracization or expulsion from public discourse. But I trust that's not your intention.
We are THE "revisionist" nation. We dismantled Versaille and reversed Yalta.
I wouldn't follow international football if not for the nationalistic fervor, patriotism, love, passion, jingoism.
Football has been called the alternative to war. They say you can "measure" a nation by it's football team.
Without national pride (and everything that goes with that), there would be no football. So any attempt to erase all those fiery components is futile.
Erase all of it from international football, and you might as well watch your local girls' team.
Destroy nationalism, and there would be NO international football. There'd be no NEED. It's paradoxical.
@Mr. Anon800,
Welcome!
The lack of "Anon's" at the forum, is more about the "culture" of the blog that Ante and Dennis have created, than it is about anything else. Do what you will.
Your estimation of the last 800 years of history, is, shall we say, somewhat "revisionist" by most accounts, but everyone is entitled to an opinion here.
Anyway, I'd like to think that soccer has nothing to do with Politics/Nationalism/History these days. But as a Hrvat, I know very well that we are "political animals" by nature, and so no problem. I'm not sure about you, but I don't think that I've ever been to gathering of 2 or more Hrvati (family or otherwise), that sooner or later didn't break out into heated and passionate discussions about politics, religion, history etc. Maybe it's just the way that we are. Like it or lump it. Personally I'm all for it.
I will say that whatever happened 800 years ago (or 70 years ago for that matter) was certainly more complex than we can probably imagine today.
@Ante BBB
Exactly man, it's time to change the guard!
I don't happen to agree with Markovic's words. Heck, I don't even know that he said them. Who am I to trust? INDEX.YU? There are, in fact, conflicting reports on what Markovic actually said.
But it's entirely irrelevant!
Whether or not Modric was "taken out" is irrelevant, too!
But there's no denying the hatred and contempt that English football, politics and media have for Croatia. They have used – and will again- any method they can to get an edge on their opponents – especially against Croats. Simple as that.
The Eduardo "assasination" attempt, the arrest of Srebric, the vitriol in the English press, the Modric "assasination" – none of that holds more water than when Robert Kovac was ejected from the last meeting in ZG. That ejection not only changed the course of the match, which we probably could have won, but the rest of the qualifying campaign.
And, yes, I believe the treatment of Eduardo in the last week is some of the most hypocritical and unjust bullsh*t ever witnessed. And, yes, I believe he was singled out because he is a Croatian international. So sue me.
To deny that the strongest and richest football associations throw their weight around in UEFA/FIFA is just plain foolish and naive.
As for you bezigradacZD023,
Thank you for the kind words. It's Croatians like you that add to and embrace this Croatian 'self-destruct' mentality. The first second one little thing goes wrong we start blaming each other, go on tilt and forget what our original goal was.
We can't be like that anymore. Look at the Turkey match. Once the Turks scored Croatians all over the world knew we had no shot at winning in penalties.
Our 4-1 loss to England at Maksimir- same thing. Even though it was a horseshit red card and an unlucky clearance. All of a sudden we becaome a fluke team in 90 minutes.
First of all, everyone in England puts their Premiership club in front of the national side. People could give a shit about the 3 Lions until they start making the quarters of the World Cup. They just like talking trash about their team and then put their attention towards the Premiership.
Second, remember the English press already called Croatia an inferior country. They secretly respect us and our soccer but can now never admit it because of that remark.
What a complete embarrassment that would be for the FA if they got caught hacking down 'inferior' players.
All I'm saying is that we can beat them at their own game. Why do we have to stoop down to their pathetic tea drinking level and get all emotional and hot over it.
Let's think clearly and level headed while in a crisis for once. once
You're right about the spate of "Anon's" Ante. I'd bet that it's not a bunch of new guys that just happened to show up to the site today… Just my hunch.
Ziva your'e ok in my books too:)
I don't always agree with you, but I think that's the entire point of forum's isn't it? Discussion, new ideas etc… Then again, anybody who names themselves "Ziva Istina", is probably not the bashful type to begin with 🙂
Although, just to stoke the fires a little bit (if I haven't already:), I'm going to stick-up for the North American brethren, and say that your discounting of the mental aspect of sports, is very naive.
Perhaps "Americans" put to much emphasis on "psycho-babble" as you put it, but only a fool would deny that the mental aspect of sports is not important.
btw. I love the "golf clap" bit Ante!
All of you who agree with Markovic are nothing more than complete idiots who need to be castrated thrice so that you don't spawn any children with your idiotic beliefs.
I agree with Ante's (beautiful name btw.) assessment on the matter. Croatia needs to take the high ride on this one and beat the ever loving shit out of the English. I believe they will because whenever Croatia has its back against the wall, they somehow seem to win. Croatia is the type of team that can beat England 3:2 at Wembley but lose the next day against powerhouse Thailand 0:1. Any given Saturday decki.
There is no conspiracy.
Markovic is a fucktard.
Those who agree with him are the same.
Go to England.
Win.
Game over.
Done.
Markovicu, tko te jebe, Hrvatska moze i bez tebe!
I'm the "800 yrs. without a state" poster. This is my third post on this thread.
Today I discovered this site and decided to comment on the controversy.
Didn't register my nickname, or real name, for that matter – because I'm a newcomer and didn't think I'd stay too long. Began to consider registering, but might actually choose not to because of the paranoics that can't stand a few anonymous comments.
Some of the most important documents in US history were written veiled by pseudonyms, in total anonymity, so why the fuss over a few comments that some of you don't agree with? That's a pretty sh*tty stance.
Anyhow, keep up the good work.
Markovic and Srebric out of the HNS. MRS VAN!!! The sooner the better because these guys are idiots. Boban needs to come in at Markovic's place. Markovic has done nothing for the Croatian League. The national team makes the savez alot of money and I wish they would invest some of it in the HNL. Creating a stronger HNL would develop stronger players and in turn produce more national team caliber players. A stronger HNL would also bring more fans to the games which would allow clubs to increase ticket sales. Everyone wins in this case. I'm disappointed its taken them so long to build a national training facility. The past several years they have been going to Catez, Slovenia to prepare for games. Why don't we have our own top quality facility? I've heard they are building one but haven't heard anything about it lately. We need new leaders who understand modern soccer like Boban, Asanovic, etc. I would say keep Stimac away because I've never felt good about his intentions. Markovic/Srebric are old school and they need to go. We need the Vatreni of 98 to take over the future of the national team.
No offence, Ante, I love your site. But do you think ziva knows more about soccer-particularly Croatian soccer-than Markovic? ziva's the resident cynic-who can be found on any internet chat forum.
Yeh I find it pretty funny that once a really controversial topic comes up so many Anonymous's show up.
It better not be any of my Prva Generacija either.
(Golf Clap) to to Ziva Istina who just reeled in his first fan. BTW I'm a supporter too my friend. You know your stuff and you lnow how to always put a fun little spin on things. Maybe we should put you on payroll. 🙂
honestly, ante kvartuc, ur a raging fag. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A CONSPIRACY AGAINST CROATIA!! ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME???? YOU HAVE TO BE RETARDED TO NOT FIGURE OUT THAT ENGLAND FUCKING HATES US!!! WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!! ANTE MARKOVIC HAS EVERY EVERY RIGHT TO SAY WHAT HE SAID BECAUSE ITS TRUE!!!
Thanks brother…..Just adding a different voice at times (non-homer) to the conversation.
I thought I would never say this….but…..I totally agree with ziva istina (big fan btw)
Can all the anonymous people pleeeeeeaaase get a name (any name) cause the conversation is hard to follow when there are so many anonymouses. I'm like, is it all the same anonymous or different anonymouses….ya please get a name.
Ziva…keep up the great commenting….
i know it doesnt affect the nt but the eduardo ban is fucking bullshit.
I agree with your statements. My "educational" comment was limited to excercising a profound sense of self and self-respect, nothing else. They can keep the mass-murder and their shitty ways.
Theres nothing to learn from England. They committed mass murder at Haisel and turn Iraqi children into vapour. They hide the racism in their stands and they ignore when Gerard and Rooney dive. They were nothing but a load of pub players before the foriegners arrived in the country to improve their game. They are a load of schiesters that pretend and conceal their flaws.
I prefer to single out Lee Bowyer rather than tarnish every English player. I'll let Martin Taylor off cos the guy showed remorse. Fans and manager are to blame for turning Taylor into a two second monster. People used to mock him for being 6ft5 and being soft. So a few of the wrong words in his ear when he was playing for his Birmingham future made him do that. The guy tried to be agressive but it was kinda like a giant trying to be friends with the little people whilst accidently treading on them. He ended up doing something clumsy and that's all. But Lee Bowyer is total scum. He didn't even ask on Modric's health. The guy left his leg in and is a total prat.
This would be the coolest thing EVER!
Lets say we beat belarus 3-0 without modric. Then On Sep 9th when we face England Modric is sitting on the sub bench with his steet clothes on. Then in the 35th minute BILIC is like "modric go in". And modric strips his clothes off like superman, but instead of the superman suit he has the croatian jersey on. And goes in the and BEATS England 4-1! LOL
Croatia vs Belarus
—————Runje—————
Corluka——-Krizanac——pranjic
—————Simunic————-
Srna—-Vukojevic—-rakitic-kranjcar
———-Olic——eduardo———-
I disagree with the superstitions. Ya we are unlucky, but England has got a good enough team to not have to get shady in their dealings before the game. I bet if UEFA could though, they'd tried to get Eduardo banned from International play haha. Anyways, instead of Rooney's legs getting broken I'd rather see Terry's get broken by Corluka. CROATIAN CONSPIRACY AGAINST ENGLANDS PREMIER TEAM, CHELSEA!!
eh fuck off Englishman, Croatia plays awesome football. I cant believe you guys blamed Croatia for not participating in Euro 2008!! Just because we didn't have to win, we weren't going to let you trample us. We play for pride of our Country no matter what the circumstanced are! I dont give a fuck if we were last in the group. You better bring your fucking "A" game in order to get through us. GO CROATIA!!!!!
pardon my croatian but does this say Hleb will not be playing on saturday
http://sportske.jutarnji.hr/index.php?cmd=show_clanak&clanak_id=13506
Too many "coincidences," dear Croats. And the lot of you that are, once again, blaming everything from Croatian "superstition" to our "mentality" – to hell with all of you.
You're precisely the reason we didn't have a state for over 800 years.
We need to learn from the English – "RIGHT OR WRONG, MY PEOPLE" – that's an English motto for you.
Anyone that denies the English purely hate us on every level -ranging from geo-politics to the billion dollar industry that football is – you are sadly mistaken. And need to wake the f*ck up.
Anyone stating that the English believe their elimination at the feet of Croatia to be a fluke, simply just does not understand what is taking place in the football world.
The English FA and media always deploy an orchestrated attack against anything Croatian prior to important matches. Coincidence? Riiight.
They were defeated, pretty badly -at Wembley- by tiny Croatia. A football national team that represents a state that, in their view, should never have been.
It's as simple as that.
Markovic is an idiot. Just shut up.
And this will not motivate us. if it takes these type of comments to motivate grown men, then we will get killed anyway. Some of you guys think the american sports pyshco-babble actually influences games, it does not.
I've got to be with Ziva on this one.
The only conspiracy is small/slight Croatians being injured by clumsy and lumbering Englishmen. It's real simple, small guys get injured by bigger men. It's a question of physics, nothing else.
The fact that some of us believe that we are "cursed", and then blame some "conspiracy" for the circumstances, is frankly quite embarrassing, irrational, and perhaps a sign of impotence and inferiority on a collective level.
If we want to get into the realm of "superstition" to explain our ills, then it's just as plausible to say all these events regarding Croatia and England are "karmic". Or perhaps "we didn't pray hard enough", and our vengeful God is punishing us? Equally plausible no?
As is sometimes said, "attitude is destiny", and if you expect bad things to happen, they generally do.
As for what Markovic comments, they aren't what I would call responsible of a leader. If he's trying to sell newspapers then its fine, but to think that his comments will give "extra" motivation to the team, is, I hope, a ridiculous sentiment. If our team is not motivated already, then inane comments from a doddering old man won't change that.
Anyway, I'm interested to hear what the community thinks about this?
How would you or Markovic explain these situations?
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=AmacWYyUzS2TMm9U7WjtLNEUwLYF?slug=ap-denmark-lightning&prov=ap&type=lgns
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=AifMXf5k1QIB03378kMSKaMUwLYF?slug=ap-spahic-swineflu&prov=ap&type=lgns
btw. It's official Dudu gets 2 game suspension.
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=AtN4mNuzmzBLJO7Drof37EImw7YF?slug=ap-eduardobanned&prov=ap&type=lgns
Even though the Eduardo injury was much more severe, I do believe it was an accident….but this time around, even after the first time I watched the video I thought it looked intentional. When you look at the replay it doesn't look like Bowyer made particularly hard contact, but do any of you know how much force in the form of acceleration or pressure it takes to fracture a fibula (even at the proper angle)? Look it up. Bowyer must have put some umph into it once he hit Modric's leg.
weather it was done on purpose or not, i like markovic's comments, who cares what the world thinks, i think he did the right thing, give the players a little extra motivation, us against the world, light the fire cause this is the most important week coming up.
Rooney has made boneheaded plays against englishment as well, not just Kranjcar. I think some of you guys are looking for something that does not exist. The biggest knocks against Modric and Eduardo were the physical appearance and how they could hold up in the EPL.
This is Lee Bowyer we are talking LEE BOWYER. Do you lot even know who this guy is. West Ham fans protested outside the ground when there club signed him. That's the sort of player we are talking about. He didn't even enquire regards Modric's health.
As for Martin Taylor – you have to look at this guys character and have to question whether he did it on purpose. I think he poss was told by his coach to rough up Arsenal and he made clumsy challenge. But thats his coaches fault as he is not naturally a dirty player. Taylor at least went to the hospital. This at least shows some regret. He also looked white in the face when he broke Eduardo's leg. Bowyer however is a disgrace of a person. I think he is more likely to have wanted to cause harm than Taylor. Markovic should be quieter and say this at the right time as this does not help our teams prep.
ziva, I wish that were true. What about Eduardo? What about the midget, Rooney, and his tackle on Kranjcar? Now Modric? Is it all a coincidence? Are the limeys so scared of us that they want to break all of our players legs?
The English FA doesn't give a shit about Croatia. They consider the Euro qualifying campaign to have been a fluke.
We hrvati think the entire world is against us, but logic and reason shows no conspiracy. In the last 11 years we have beaten teams like germany (twice) and Italy in international tournaments. If there was any sort of conspirancy, these wins never would have taken place.
Modric broke his leg, thats it. Nothing more to it….
how i would love to see simunic go in with a two footed challenge on that troll of a man rooney
As much as I don't like Markovic, I agree with him. Just because the foul looked "lame", doesn't mean there was no ill intent behind it. I wouldn't put it past the English. The English FA despises us Croats.