SPORTSKE NOVOSTI COPIES CSR’S STORY. EVEN HEATED DEBATES ARE GETTING CREDIT ACROSS THE POND.
After hours of debating with Dennis Fistonić over two fantastic goals this past week in Europe, I (Ante Kvartuč) have decided to turn to Prva Generacija and CSR Nation for a check on my own soccer sanity. I am arguing that Mladen Petrić’s bicycle kick goal is far more difficult to score than Arjen Robben’s 18 yard volley. They whole-heartedly disagree.
We are taking all situational elements out of the equation which include playing at Old Trafford in a Champions League match while one goal down on aggregate. Obviously Robben’s goal was one hundred times more important than Petric’s. But which one was more difficult to pull off?
Robben had all day to line up his shot with no defender in sight while Petrić had to get up with his back to goal and strike a ball that was flying away from him- all with a defender on his back. For me this is easy, Petrić wins the ‘degree of difficulty’ award. What do you think though?
PETRIĆ BICYCLE VS. STANDARD IN EUROPA LEAGUE
ROBBEN’S VOLLEY VS. MANCHESTER UNITED IN CHAMPIONS LEAGUE
I personally am very confident about Croatia's chances in Euro's and the future of the team. Creatively theres loads of option. I consider
MIDFIELDERS
Rakitic*, Kranjcar*, Pranjic*, Badelj, Perisic, Gabric, Ilicevic, Tomecak, Srna*, Modric to be more than good enough.
Currently for forwards i consider
FORWARDS
Olic, Eduardo, Petric, Kalinic, Klasnic, Budan (if he moves properly), Jelavic, M Bilic more than adequate and should cause plenty of trouble.
I think Mario Mandzukic needs taking out the picture for a while cos he don't deserve it and Mario Gavranovic needs assessing. Next season he could be an option too.
With Srdjan Lakic, Andrej Keric, Ante Rukavina, Daniel Cesarec i think they need to get to different clubs to be making strides in there career.
Wait, are people actually suggesting Bilić is to blame for our failure to qualify?
Clearly, nobody was paying attention during the Turkey game, I guess…
Face it, it's not in the national mentality to maintain focus for a whole game. We're talking about a country with an average attention span of just under 20 seconds (excepting Olić, who seems more German than Hrvat).
And, as if that weren't enough of a disadvantage, it seems that the national character is based off of one big, collective emotional yo-yo. When we're scored on, the whole team hangs their heads, walks slowly up the pitch, and practically throws in the towel. The supporters get quiet. We are beaten, mentally, far too easily.
When we score, the game might as well be over. We celebrate, we get cocky, we lose focus.
About the only time we ever do well is when there are no expectations for success, when we have nothing to lose, when we're underdogs.
These aren't just character traits of Croatian players, they're how most of us act in groups. If we're honest with ourselves, we are a bit of a self-sabotaging culture, and don't do well when the chips are down.
Most of the players on top sides in Europe gained recognition because he selected them for international duty. He lifted us to a whole new level, where a nation with the population of Seattle has more players on big European teams than the entire US.
Give Bilić some credit. He has, in my opinion, done a damn good job with a difficult product.
I guess this where we disagree….
KALINIC,
KLASNIC,
DUJMOVIC,
CALE,
LOVREN,
VIDA,
PERISIC,
BADELJ,
TOMECAK,
JELAVIC,
M BILIC,
EDUARDO,
BUDAN,
KRANJCAR,
KNEZEVIC
The guys you listed, (outside of Kranjcar, Da Silva and probably Lovren), I don't think they are good enough to take on the likes of Ukraine and Greece.
I reserve judgment on the younger players (Perisic, etc…) but none of those younger guys were in contention for a spot during WC qualifying, so to say they should have been used last time around is wrong. Not, that you said that, but others have.
We'll see how Euro qualifying goes. For us to make it, we need our core players to be fit and ready (Modric and Kranjcar) are the heart of this team and if they go down, I am afraid we have nobody that can pick it up for them. And our defenders are still a big ????
I just think there is a big drop off from our first 13 or 14 players to our next group of guys from 15-22.
'Not good enough with the guys we had playing'
Yeah with Pranjic at left back.
Rakitic on left wing..
N Kovac, juric and R Kovac playing their last games in their entire career.
Mandzo from bench.
BUT WITH RESPECT TO KALINIC, KLASNIC, DUJMOVIC, CALE, LOVREN, VIDA, PERISIC, BADELJ, TOMECAK, JELAVIC, M BILIC, EDUARDO, BUDAN, KRANJCAR, KNEZEVIC you can't judge them cos they didn't play the key game END OF STORY!
We'll judge them when they do play and that you can say you were right cos at the moment we can't tell.
Re: Ziva
Its hard to go overboard on Mandzo during the qualifiers as his performances V England – home, V Ukraine (both games) was alright. By his normal standard he actually played okay in those games, unlike Modric and unlike Petric. However he is not the answer. Vs England (away) and Vs Kazakstan though Mandzo was awful.
Again with Kalinic i'll say this again are you saying Kalinic cannot play V Ukraine and Greece? Daft comment. Jelavic also can do a job against Ukraine and Greece.
If anything Jelavic has shown in the Europa Liga he's perfect for one off matches which is one international football is. If we look at the teams he's scored against Villa and Celtic.. This is like playing against Greece and Ukraine. We're talking about qualifying. you seem to be comparing Croatia when to Brazil or Spain when you talk of players who aren't good enough for international football… You don't not play someone for a match against Ukraine just cos they're not good enough to beat Argentina? That's the logic i'm hearing from you. Makes no sense at all. You're mentality is a defeatest mentality before you even step out on the pitch.
I'll review those strikers for you..
Olic – works hard, but a distinct lack of goals at international level. Needs rotating.
Petric – needs competition from other strikers otherwise he gets complacent and doesn't turn up. Petric needs man management.
Klasnic – During WC qualifying he was too trouble and unfit to do much for Croatia, but should have been used more from the bench instead of Mandzo as he could easily deliver a goal. His shooting is crisp and that's what beats keepers – not shots like Modric and Mandzo possess.
Jelavic – Can easily be a joker from the bench to Croatia. Unlike Olic and Petric. This guy hunts in the box. He can delivery a scruffy goal just when Croatia need it and also appears to have some heading ability.
Kalinic – Not ready in Euro's but a vastly improved player this season. Kalinic is more a target man. Someone who you start and he will hold the ball which he seems outstanding at. Could be a even better player next season once he gets confident in front of goal.
Eduardo – Regardless of his form at one of the very best clubs in the world, he stills scores for Croatia. Obviously he's at home at this level.
Mandzo – A troubled guy. Mamic doesn't help by abusing him and making him feel unloved at Dinamo. Esp as Mandzo knows he needs Mamic to get his move. If his heads not in the right place he's useless. as a footballer and a person has a lot to learn.
Budan – extremely good in the air in anyones book. This guy would not played a career in Italy if he had nothing to offer to Croatia. Obviously injury prone, but from the bench could deliver important goals. Again would not be part of Palermo if he was not a good player.
If you make this lot compete against each other and combine them properly including Mate Bilic then i don't see how that's not good enough to qualify.
the guys you just mentioned……..
petric……..has never shown his form from germany and switzerland at the club level
olic……work horse for us…no complaints
bilic…..not international quality
the brazilian born croat…..has yet to be the same player since his injury
klasnic……we know his health situation, at best he is a 30-minute man for the repka
jelavic……..plays in a shit league, so cant really make a judgement
kalinic……too inconsistent to be on the national team.
and I'll add in Mandzukic, who was included in the last few qualifiers and nobody was bitching about him being included at the time. I've said from day one this kid is a headcase. this guy, at best, is another tomo sokota…
so, you are telling me we have depth. Olic and Petric are quality and maybe the brazilian born croat will be if he can ever regain his form, but the rest will never do anything on the int. level.
slovenia made it because they were in weak group and played a russian team the screwed themselves up by playing a bad first leg. All credit to the wanna-be serbs from slovenia, but they will lose all three matches at the WC. Hell, even Latvia qualified for a Euro.
The reason we are not going to the WC has nothing to do with Bilic. We simply were not good enough to make it with the guys we had playing.
I dont understand why you bring up manddzukic and rukavina, its' bilic fault he ever called mandzukic. WE have petric ,olic, bilic, da silva, klasnic,jelavic,kalinic teams have done better with less.No one can argue we have lack of depth, but its what you do with what you have. Slovenia have far less talent than we do but when i watched them against russia in the playoffs they were organized and and well prepared. They were never out of position. Thats good coaching. Putting in pokrivac as a fullback when at that the time he wasent even fit tells me more than we have lack of depth it tells me our coach cant solve any problems. Yes we dont have a proper fullback, re shuffle things put simunic or even cale, i dont get it maybe cale wont give you anything offensively but im sure he would have done better than pokrivac did. Why would you play a 36 year old in the national team, makes no sense, vukojevic was there for two years and all of a sudden before a big game in zagreb you put a 36 year old, why does it take so lonog to call players who deserve a shot. Why call a 36 year old when you have a player in dujmovic playing on a desent team getting good reviews. same thing happend with krizanac, bilic, yes you bring up lack of depth, but this is the best squad we had in some years, yes we are no brazil, but with what he has, he's gotten alot wrong. You say the only reason we qualified in the past when jozic or baric were coaching was bc we had weaker groups. That is true but the talent in our squad was pathetic, and had no depth at all. They were always prepared and it showed in the way they played. When i watch our current team i dont feel that way.
Correct, we have played many players outside their regular spots. Just shows the lack of depth that we do have.
Us not making the wc is proof we lack depth. Blame bilic all you want, but we lacked the talent deserving off a wc spot this time around.
And when I complain about the hnl, I am complaining about the lack of international level players. We will always produce players that will
play throughout europe, but we are not producing layers to help the repka… If mandzukic, rukkavina and etc are our hope, then we in trouble and how is that bilic's fault.
I have to agree with JP, ive never been a fan of bilic as a coach and with every game that goes by it seems to me he is getting worst rather than better. Croatia will always and have always had a lack of depth in the squad, but since the days of 98 we havent had a decent starting 11 as we do know. My biggest concern going forward is that bilic has proven time and time again his resistance to change. After failing to qualify for the world cup our first friendly he plays basiclly same 11 and a 3-5-2 what further proof do we need that bilic is a bad coach. It was a shame total shame the way we lost to england in wembley, estonia would have gave a better performance. And yes players could have had more heart but i put the blame totally on bilic.In all the years watching croatia even the years with the bad players we always knew how and where to stand on the pitch, ALWAYS.we dont have that same organization anymore. Starting pokirvac on left back insane. And i will say it know many people think were gonna qualify easily this up coming round but i think our chances are 50-50. With the modern game getting faster and faster we are geting slower and slower, my biggest concern is we play to much negative soccer, i dont think we can qualify with krunchi playing one wing and srna playing the other. srna always looks to fall and and get the foul, everytime he does this the other team gets organized and our attack is dead, with krunchi hes simply slows our attack down, croatia cant have both playing at the same time one has to go. And one final note to many players play out of postion on our team from their club teams. Pranic never plays fullback rarely ever and hes thrown into our defence in pressure packed games. Srna dosent play mid in ukraine he plays fullback bc he has no skill.Rakitic never plays left mid in germany he plays right, he's best game by far in a croatia dress was in belerus when he played right mid.
I did write a long reply but then decided i couldn't be bothered to debate.. Time consuming..
With the Croatian league though what about the talent. Do you know how HNL1 is run? No side can work easily in such a situation where there is such a massive turnover of players. Croatians are signed out of this league all over the world so looks like there is plenty of HNL1 talent..
By the way Ziva you was complaining about the Dinamo penalty last week and i didn't know what you were talking about. There's clearly jostling in the area. This week though there is no way that is a penalty. Loko were hard done by. Mandzukic took a flop.. By giving him a penalty refs are not helping him learn..
See, even Jutarnji puts it along the same lines as me:
http://www.jutarnji.hr/u-zivotnoj-su-formi–a-sp-ce-gledati-na-tv-u/704948/?pageNumber=1#page_1
Are poaching stories from our beloved blog?
Ps.
@Ziva
In regard to my Davis Cup analogy… you are missing the point… and the point is that a handful of talent that is well-developed can overcome otherwise great odds. Sure Ljubicic was hot… so what… so was Suker in 1998… but before either of them got hot at that particular time there was years and years of preparation and skill development.
@Dinamofan
Yes, exactly. Now you are seeing my point.
Part of the reason we have qualified in the past was due to ease of the qualifying groups. I think this time around we had the toughest qualifying group. Still, not an excuse, but when you couple that with the injuries we had, the cards, and lack of bench, then it is no surprise we are not going to the WC.
Is Bilic a good or bad coach???? I really don't know. Everyone hailed him until the mid of the last qualifying cycle. I guess the cycle will be the determing factor.
My point about his comments and what he says to the public has no bearing on how he coaches. Mourinho acts like a nuts at times on sideline, but that does not mask his coaching ability (note– i am not comparing Bilic to the special one). Wenger and Sir Alex also say some strange things….my point is the actions of a coach (verbal and physical) have little to do with coaching abilities.
I still maintain we dont have any depth on this team and that is not Bilic's fault. You need talent to make a team function and outside of our first 14 or 15 players, we do not have that. Past teams did not have that either, but the play of the diaspora players covered that up. Look at the roster at the 2002 and 2006 WC…lack of depth on those squads as well. the key was we were healthy for the most part and did not pile up cards in the qualifiers. This time we were hurt and the cards piled up.
Players like Mate Bilic, Leko, Pokrivac, Juric and others now: Budan, Dujmovic, etc….none of these guys are international level players.
I look at our Euro 2008 performance as a fluke….We are a team/country that can qualify for the major tourney, but not do much after that.
I think some of you guys have a very inflated view of the croatian players. Yes, our starters when healthy can compete with almost everyone, but once we lose a few players we are in trouble.
As whoever made the comment about country size and comapring it to the Davis Cup success we had in 2005….Totally ignorant statement. In Davis Cup all you need is one hot players and we had that in Ljubo. Take him of that team and we would have lost early in the davis cup. Its the same reason Serbia will be a tough out, because they have a player in Djokovic that can win three matches on a weekend.
Do you guys watch the cro soccer league……then you know about the lack of talent in that league.
Ziva we only missed one tournament so i don't get your comments about that Croatia does not have the players to qualify comment..
Also Modric, Corluka both players had key moments that helped end Croatia's participation so i'm not buying that one either. Corluka played two very bad games around that time V Liverpool and followed it up with a terrible display V Ukraine.. If Modric and Corluka are there its not, but Croatia should get away from depending on people.
Modric – i had this dispute a while back. You cannot pin your hopes on Modric as the only attacking playmaker like Croatia were forced to do due to Kranjcar's absence as Modric simply is not a good enough goalscorer. Cos Petric was confused by his role in the side, Modric and Olic were forced to take the initiative, but neither are killers in front of goal. Modric has his moments, but on the whole his shooting is poor. You can go through nearly 30 Croats who have a better shot than Modric has. Sadly a lot of important chances V Ukraine fell to Modric and also fell to Olic in the air. If Mate Bilic had those chances maybe its a different story, but Bilic chose strikers who are poor in the air thus limiting Croatia's chance to mix up their play. Every team does this. That's why England play Heskey and Spain can also do this due to the ariel ability of Torres.
All Croatia had to do is bypass Ukraine and Greece. Forget England. We could have lost twice to England and still qualified. If you think Mate Bilic etc are not good enough to bypass Greece and Ukraine i just don't agree with that..
Also if Slaven Bilic is so free from blame – can you explain to me why playing Mario Mandzukic on right wing V England was a good decision? as far as i'm aware the guy has never played there in his life. Also Pokrivac at left back..
Forget Bilic, Dujmovic, Ilicevic, Badelj, Perisic and all these guys who are supposedly not good enough to qualify Croatia.
Lets look at Bilic's actual squad players for WC.
JERKO LEKO – When was the last time the guy played a game of football.
NIKOLA POKRIVAC – Very ordinary player. Can put his foot in and deliver the occasional long distance shot, but is not particularly skilled.
DINO DRPIC – Doesn't even look good in Bundesliga 2.
HJORVE VEJIC – Part of Hajduk's scrap heap
NIKOLA KALINIC – Too soon. Never played a game to even prepare him if Croatia needed him.
MARIO MANDZUKIC – He actually played well by normal standards, but is a clear liability who you don't count on like Bilic did.
GORAN SABLIC – Could even retire.
Basically Slaven Bilic couldn't think beyond that small spectrum for his squad. Players who aren't up physically or mentally ready.
The only reason i'd let Bilic off is cos he'd like to have called Knezevic, Budan, Klasnic, Eduardo and Kranjcar but they were injured for most of the campaign. Also he has most of those guys back and more young players and other players back in form now so the situation SHOULD be healthier.
If Klasnic gets a jersey in Bundesliga and Budan drops down to the right Italian side that should also increase his options. Similarly if Jelavic went to the right club and Mandzo – i know its asking a lot but actually LEARNED and improved abroad it should all help.
I'd 100% agree the defence and keeper situation is still dodgy, but it should survive the group we're in.
@Ante Kvartuč
"@ Fisto,
Looks like CSR Nation favors with me."
Only Dalmatinci will understand this.
"ti u kupe on u špade"
Dennis and Ante, you are both wrong…hahahaaha.
1) Ante is arguing "the difficulty of the goal", not taking into consideration a)quarterfinals of champs league, b)down a goal on aggreggate, c)in Old Trafford… etc etc..
in this case its Petric..
2) Fisto is taking all of the above into consideration…
in this case its Robben…
End of story…. next post
Part 4
…cont’d…
"Actually they didn't qualify for the same reason that we didn't this l If they were even somewhat healthy last time around, they would have qualifed. So, if they cant make it with their second string, what makes you think Croatia can."
This is not only simplistic, but it’s the same old powerless "we're a small country argument" that I mentioned in the first post. Croatia can win the Davis Cup, so why doesn't England?
If your logic is that the size of population, economy, domestic league, technology etc., are the main determinant of soccer success, then obviously that's flawed, as there are numerous examples of countries that should be soccer powerhouses by these standards that are not, and vice versa. And even if we were to accept these factors as important, then on a relative level, we'll never have what England has in these areas, and so why bother competing?
So therefore we can only conclude that there's no way to "generalize" soccer success by some formula, but rather only by what happens on the pitch. What happens on the pitch is the great-equalizer, and an inherent part of that "equalization" is injuries, which every team more or less faces. If you use injuries as an excuse, then you really don't understand the game. Do you see my point? Since injuries are always a part of the game, and everybody knows this, even the man of average intelligence prepares for such actualities.
In my opinion, soccer success largely comes down to whether a country, "naturally has" or can "develop" a small group of coaches and players (lets say 50 in total), that are potentially world-class. If you don't have this group "naturally" in a nation,(ie as a product of the existing environment and culture in any nation), then you have to develop them, if this is your country's desire. Almost any country can develop a group of 50 specialized people for any purpose, if they have the desire to do so. Countries like Japan, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Australia etc., are powerful arguments that this is possible. In fact, you could argue quite persuasively that if it weren't for our "poaching" of players from the diaspora of countries with good development systems, we would've been a minnow on the global soccer scene in the last 10 years. Examples abound in this regard… Simunic from Australia… Kovac's and Klasnic etc., from Germany… Dudu from Brasil… Rakitic from Switzerland… and many others before them. You could even go a level deeper, and look within Croatia itself. It seems like a disproportionate number of our NT (outside of diasporites) are from Hercegovina or Bosna, does it not?
"Lets think a little before we write inaccurate comments."
I completely agree.
Anyway, I look forward to further comments. Do you all see what I'm getting at here with this?
Part 3-
Cont’d…
You also say…
"Our nation made results in 1998 using players that grew up in the yugo soccer system. That is why we advanced, they were skilled, well coached and in the prime of their careers or near the very top"
Of all your reply, this is the most surprising part… So what was the magic that Yugoslavia had coaching-wise that we don't?
I can only infer from your comments that it must have been the Serbian and Slovenian element then? Did Bilic not grow-up in that system? This doesn't make sense to me. I never took you to be a closet "Yugo-booster" 🙂
In terms of players being in "their prime", at any point in time there will always be players in "their prime". Was little Juric from Genoa in his prime when Bilic selected him? How about coaching and developing players so that they get to their prime when you need it?
You continue further…
"What nonsense is this…..please identify the players after our starting 11 that could deliver our country into the world cup. You are totaly nuts if you think playes like Mate Bilic, Pokrivac, Subasic, Gabric, Cale, etc… could lead this team into the WC."
First and foremost, Bilic should be "leading the team to the WC". This is a major part of my point… he didn't do this! Secondly, that's the coaches job to identify who is able, beyond the starting 11, to help the cause!
And you say…
"One of the reasons England did not qualify last time around was because of all the injuries they had."
You're right, England didn't qualify last-time for the same reason we didn't this time, but the evidence that you point to is flawed. We both didn't qualify at those times because of sub-par coaching!
Remember umbrella man Mclaren? He was such a bad coach that he made a sub-par Bilic look like a genius. But that doesn't mean that Bilic is a good coach, just better than Mclaren. Even a guy like Bernd Stange of Belarus out-classed Bilic, who in that case was only saved by a very lucky Rakitic goal in Zagreb, from monumental embarrassment. Perhaps it's a communist thing…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernd_Stange
Part 2-
Cont’d…
"There is not a better coach to replace Bilic for the cro national team for the money we are paying. We cant afford a big name, so we are left with Bilic. I rather have him now than any other croatian coach."
Ok, if you say so. Surely your statement is true if we don't actually look for, or consider a replacement.
Although, lets remember, Bilic himself came into the NT job with very little experience, and so your implication is therefore that nobody like him exists in the country now? I guess we just got extremely lucky that we had a "natural" like Bilic lying around.
Personally, I find it very hard to believe that in a "soccer culture" like ours, that nobody else in the country or in the diaspora has an idea of how to coach. Even if that is true, can we not develop them? Lets send them to Holland (or wherever else the "best" coaches happen to come from) to learn how to coach.
I'm not saying that we should get a "big name" coach like Capello or Hiddink (although if the will existed, we could find the money for them), rather I present these luminaries as examples of the deficiency of Bilic's ability and skills. He's certainly not on, or progressing toward these levels.
Also, Ciro, Jozic, Cico, and Ivankovic, are all Croatian coaches who have taken our team or others to the WC, and they are still around… is Bilic markedly better than any of these guys? They all dealt with injuries too… Boksic, Tudor, etc, and still made the WC. Jozic had a bunch of scrubs, and they still made the WC and beat Italy while they were there, with "legends" like Rapaic and Rosso on the squad. Jozic was at least intelligent enough to give a young Olic a chance.
What about Niko Kovac? Would he do any worse than Bilic? Soldo?
In terms of the "second" team that I allude to… of course it would not be better, you're missing the point here…
You're assuming that we would replace the entire first team, with this second team, as a whole. My point is that we had 3-4 injuries… and therefore the second team only needs to be prepared a little deeper than this.
Are you telling me that with the talent that we have that we can't prepare 4-5 high level replacements, in the likelihood of injuries? Bilic's overall game plan is flawed, and this is my major problem with him. Why not use friendlies and less-arduous qualifiers to "test the mettle" of these subs, that we all know will eventually be needed. How about trying some different tactics and formations in these same matches?
Bilic's smartest move was to promote 3 young players (Dudu, Modric, Corluka,) ok, fine I'll give him credit for that, but really that wasn't rocket science. The cupboard was otherwise bare at the time. Beyond that, his grand innovation was to play Pranjic at left back… great that worked for a few games… and then all the other teams adjusted to that change, and exploited that royally (see Capello's England in the case that you forgot) and he had no 2nd act prepared. In fact he didn't even try anything.
I'm not going to get into "this player or that player"… that's not my point. Rather, my point is that Bilic has squandered the talent that we both agree that we have. He has done nothing to develop and prepare that second team. Who cares what their names are, as long as they play well.
Part 1
@Ziva
Nice retort. I guess if nothing else, we both agree that we have talent.
You say…
"But first, who cares what Bilic says or does not say on TV. That means nothing."
Really? What has meaning then? Body language? Results?
You continue…
"Some coaches are thruthful and others are not. I would not base my judgements on Bilic on what he says or does not say."
So I guess Bilic is some sort of clever "disinformation specialist" then? Must have been trained by the UDBA.
Actually, most of my judgement of him comes from his actions, both on the sideline, and those decisions he makes (or mostly does not make) on the pitch.
You continue…
@ Fisto,
Looks like CSR Nation favors with me.
I wished Mladen would have had a better after goal celebration cause robben really gave it to man u after his goal with the crazy goal remark the stinging effect and to hot to handle effect but i guess mladen has always been very non show offish I also liked when Olic gave it to man u after his goal in munic taking off his shirt one more thing that dirty f….in cetnik vidic did u see him kick olic in the chest what a suck but again Olic gave it to him right after that when Pranjic came on giving that fantastic yell hard hand slap right infront off vidic .
JP……….Bilic might be out of his league, or not. But first, who cares what Bilic says or does not say on TV. That means nothing. Some coaches are thruthful and others are not. I would not base my judgements on Bilic on what he says or does not say. There is not a better coach to replace Bilic for the cro national team for the money we are paying. We cant afford a big name, so we are left with Bilic. I rather have him now than any other croatian coach.
So you think we have 2 teams worth of quality players as you said (these are your commesnts below, not mine)…….we have at least 2 teams worth of high-level professionals playing all around the best leagues in the world. this website, being a shining example of that. not to even mention a legion of thousands in Hrvatska wishing to get to these levels.
What nonsense is this…..please identify the players after our starting 11 that could deliver our country into the world cup. You are totaly nuts if you think playes like Mate Bilic, Pokrivac, Subasic, Gabric, Cale, etc… could lead this team into the WC. One of the reasons England did not qualify last time around was because of all the injuries they had. If they were even somewhat healthy last time around, they would have qualifed. So, if they cant make it with their second string, what makes you think Croatia can. Lets think a little before we write inaccurate comments.
Our nation made results in 1998 using players that grew up in the yugo soccer system. That is why we advanced, they were skilled, well coached and in the prime of their careers or near the very top.
Again, yes, we have talent, but we do not have talent to make up for injuries.
Again, what would our line up look like without Modric, Kranjcar, Corluka. Take these three guys out of the line up or any other 3 guys and tell me who can replace them…..their replacements lower our level of play…..
All these names DF mentioned above are nice players, but none of them are international quality that can make an impact and put us into a major tourney. I laugh everytime i hear the name Rukavina. He is good for a track meet and that is about it.
there is a reason we have only made it out of the group stage once since 1998 and the reason is because we do not have the depth to compete after our first 13 or 14 players get injured or pick up cards along the way.
Before people start spouting off Hiddink as an example can i just say this guy failed to qualify a very strong Russia team featuring Arshavin, Zhirkov, Akinfeev, Pobrenjak, Pav and high quality players of this nature and allowed them to bow out to a less opponent in the play off. That is far worse that what Croatia did..
I'm happy to let what Bilic did pass a few months on. I am seeing what he does in future..
Some of his recent moves are respectable
Changes that have taken place
* Finally recognised that Mate Bilic and admittedly surprise inclusion Nikica Jelavic had something to offer Croatia.
* Lovren.. good addition.. recognises the potential of Vida, Perisic, Badelj, Tomecak to help Croatia's with its squad depth.
* Recalled Knezevic
* Kicked out jerk Leko and brought in proper defensive mid Dujmovic (even though we not seen him yet)
* Is aware of Gabric, Ilicevic, Badelj, Perisic creativity in case Modric gets injured again.
* That Pranjic can't play left back. But Van Gaal had to show him this.
With injuries – he needed to be revolutionary and he actually comes across like most rock stars 🙂 pretending to be something there not. He was dithering almost in tears when a important player went down. That showed he had no answers. He actually thought Mario Mandzukic was Croatia's saviour ??? He's not even our saviour no mind Croatias..
He needed to do something bold and brave like what Van Gaal did with Badstuber!!! when he was on the verge of the sack.
Things which i'm not sure which he's worked out yet are:
* Mario Mandzukic (but who has)
* Who to play left back
* Who to play defensive mid. talk of Rakitic there is worry. Brilliant way to send him off the rails again.
* That Olic-Petric only play well together 25% of the time which is not good enough for international football.
I think Croatia needs a little more tinkering still. Left back is not nailed down and i'd like to see Simunic over there. Left back or nowhere for Simunic. He did well in that position in the Euro qualifiers so i don't see the problem.
Centrally he has Lovren, Vida, Knezevic and Krizanac. Its not high class but it should qualify us.
If he looking for cover then i think Vucko, Mijatovic, Mikulic, Schildenfeld have had respectable seasons despite the level the play at.
All these younger guys like Tomecak, Vida, Perisic, Kalinic, Badelj need connecting to Croatia's squad too. Once that happens the situation will be healthier. Competition should improve performance.
You also got guys like Keric, Rukavina, Budan, Budimir, Ilicevic, Lakic, Cesarec who you never know may one day appear from nothing and become a national team player.
@Ziva
thanks for making my argument for me.
that health excuse that you make, is exactly the reason that he shit the bed.
smart and prepared coaches have replacements prepared. it's called redundancy. it's a basic fact of intelligent planning in any arena (pun intended:)
lets not even get into tactica, or lack thereof.
we can make excuses for one another or we can intelligently plan to the best of our ability, for things to not manifest optimally.
he obviously didn't do this, did he?
it makes it even more painful that the englezi played him for the fool. Capello embarrassed him. lets not forget that. I haven't. Obviously you have.
the worst part about making excuses, is that you don't learn from the situation. For example Bilic on British TV using those same very same excuses. he hasn't learned a thing, and the brits are laughing at him and he doesn't even know it. Sad, really friggin sad.
I don't even need to mention that he is a further embarrassment on the sideline. Jumping around like a goofball, as if he were actually in the game himself. Wouldn't you rather have a coach actually sit on the bench, and considering what "his next moves might be", as opposed to making calls for the linesman? Make me laugh clown, make me laugh.
in case you plan on bringing out that "oh we're a small country, and we don't have the depth of players bs" … that's poppycock.
we have at least 2 teams worth of high-level professionals playing all around the best leagues in the world. this website, being a shining example of that. not to even mention a legion of thousands in Hrvatska wishing to get to these levels.
now that i think about it, we should probably remove all the players on the national squad who play in the HNL. it's by far the worst league that any of Bilic's national team squad comes from.
would Capello or Hiddink choose less-talented players from worse leagues? I think not.
so you see, our talent is hindered by grossly sub-standard leadership. certainly our small nation has done very well before. so much so, that an apparent drunk took us to the world-cup as coach, with half the talent.
so tell me again that he's not the problem?
btw., just so you know, I have nothing personal against you or Bilic. I like both of you, and I'm sure that we'd get on great, but you've got to call a spade, and it's quite obvious that this man is out of his league.
we can accept this or not, but i for one, will not make excuses for it.
Not Bilic's fault all the guys are healthy now compared to our qualifying campaign.
A healthy Modric and Kranjcar will make any team look better. But, before some of you guys go crying about us not being in the WC, we would still have problems in the backline that likely would result in a group stage exit.
And to be honest, we have seen this with Petric before. He has yet to produce for the national team if you take away his goals against the weeker sides.
Petric takes the cake. Both were tremendous though. It seems as is if the seminal Ribery-Robben goal was a "set-play" that they had practiced. Certainly the Hamburg goal was spontaneous.
In regard to our players playing so well, and we're not at the World Cup… just goes to show you how badly Bilic has shit the bed.
I think Olic's goal before Robben's was more difficult than Robben's. Very tough angle shot at full speed with the left foot. Robben had all day to position for his shot.
Fuck me, Petric's 2nd goal was perfect!
@ Ante B,
I apologize and I took the name off. I meant I spoke with both of you about the goal but I actually spoke with Fistonic about it for hours. But I fixed it.
What we were arguing about was so vague for most of the night. That's why I put the post up. Sorry if there was any confusion. That's not what I'm here for.
@ Fisto,
"Everyone's forgetting to mention Arjen Robben's goal was the goal of the year! When you factor in the difficulty of the goal, quarterfinals of champs league, down a goal on aggreggate,in Old Trafford, BEST GOAL OF THE YEAR.. without a doubt."
Straight from the horse's mouth. BEST OF THE YEAR. No way. It was one-upped 24 hours later. Plus there was that bicycle kick in La Liga or Copa del Rey a month or so ago. The Spanish commentator went nuts.
Bicycles are not scored as often as you think. Volleys are far more frequent.
I think Robbens was in a more pressure environment, but i love overhead kicks so PETRIC…
If there is any place in Croatia's squad for Mario Mandzukic i'd be stunned
1. IVICA OLIC
2. EDUARDO
3. MATE BILIC
4. MLADEN PETRIC
5. IVAN KLASNIC
6. NIKOLA KALINIC
7. NIKICA JELAVIC
8. IGOR BUDAN
I'D SAY AFTER THAT IT COULD BE ANY OF
– MARIO MANDZUKIC
– DANIEL CESAREC
– ANDREJ KERIC
– SRDJAN LAKIC
– MARIO BUDIMIR
– MARIO GAVRANOVIC
– ANTE RUKAVINA
^ ALL SAME STANDARD
Also, I just noticed that you completely changed the equation. The reason I said it was the better goal by a nose is because of the circumstances. Technically, even a lousy soccer player like myself knows the scissor kick is harder to pull off. Now you're being unfair.
Again, both goals were sensational; you're making it sound like we're saying Petric's goal was shit which it clearly was not.
For the record, you're being a little over dramatic. We didn't debate for hours; I just literally typed my opinion and you decided to call me out for having my opinion. Relax why don't you. I think we should take out the Ante BBB from that one.
My arguement was for which goal had more impact. Please refer to the other post for my arguements as such so I dont have to repeat myself. Clearly I wasn't debating what was the more difficult goal, but why Robben's was the GOAL OF THE YEAR. This is a useless post. It's clearly spelled out za vas. As we say on the island, "gren ja ća, laku noć."