And the final donation comes in from Sweden! Congratulations to everyone that has supported this cause, and more importantly, donated. We not only hit our goal but we did it 24 hours before deadline.
Alright boys and girls, we’re down the final stretch of a campaign we only started four days ago. The “Joe Simunic: Za Dom Spremni” fund only needs 1 more $100 donation in order to reach our $5200 goal. We are raising these funds in order to pay Joe’s fine for his “Za Dom Spremni” chants to the crowd at Maksimir after Croatia’s 2-0 win over Iceland last week, which secured the Vatreni a World Cup berth.
This has been a hot topic between diaspora and domovina Croatians alike, however, CroatianSports.com’s raising of these funds transcends a simple $5,000 fine which Joe can easily pay himself. We not only want to show our support for Joe, as we know he did nothing wrong, but we would also like to share the unbiased history of where the chant comes from; well before its usage during WWII. It’s a part of Croatia’s national identity; and if there’s nothing wrong with our fans chanting it at games across Europe, then it shouldn’t be wrong for our players to do the same.
Joe has already publicly stated that he will not admit guilt and pay the fine to Croatian officials. With that said, the funds will be presented to Joe from us all here at CroatianSports.com and in return given to a Croatian charity: the Red Cross or a Vukovar fund. So as Thanksgiving draws near for us Croatian-Americans, we should not only be thankful for our family and friends, but we should also be thankful to be part of a culture where guys will still up for you in a moment’s notice. So stick up for Joe!
Let’s get together and finish this campaign strong as we currently have collected $5,000 and show the world what a bunch of guys who have never met each other can do when they put their heads together for a charitable cause.
Your name can remain anonymous if you wish. If Mr. Šimunić refuses to accept this donation, we will request that he donate the funds to a Croatian charity in his name. If that is also refused, the funds will be automatically refunded back to the original donators. We will only accept the first 52 people (2 people to cover paypal fees) that submit payment.
For all inquiries, questions or comments, please contact info@croatiansports.com.
We are Joe Šimunić and Joe Šimunić is us.
Illustration: Drago Teskač
Please sign the online Petition
Deadline for donation submission is December 1, 2013.
Donators:
1) Denis S 33) Frano S
2) Ante K 34) Anthony L
3) Ante B 35) Slavko J
4) Nije Bitno 36) Petar R
5) John D 37) Mrs. BBB
6) GoldenChild 38) Adrian S
7) Aaron B 39) Mile P
8) Mr. Black 40) Mate Z
9) Robert M 41) Gino H
10) Frano Budimlić 42) Andelko S
11) Ivica S 43) Croatian-American Radio Club
12) Pere D 44) Soul Champion
13) Danijel J 45) Jordan D
14) Tomislav Z 46) Ivica V
15) Black Zodiac 47) Den Hajduk
16) Marin L 48) Matt M
17) Tony M 49) Kristen S
18) Niksa B 50) CroatHrvat
19) Ilija K 51) S Nejasmic
20) Mike R 52) Clas-Otto W
21) MAKS
22) Karlo S
23) Dr. Vladimir
24) Mate F
25) Vlasta L
26) John S
27) Ladislav V
28) Danijel D
29) Anne D
30) Mario Majic
31) Frank M
32) Alen B
Truth to Power – you’re that filth the good doktor aren’t you? Silly kid don’t you know that anti fascist is code for anti scum/filth. Don’t take it personally though!
@Sudi Mi
Well said, I know them all especially A. Mesic and his family. Really good people.
@Anton
“ja ni jednoga emigrant ne zmam da se borio ili njeegova djeca. dosli ste samo da pokradete hrvatsku govna jedna.”
Anton Mesic, Robert Balaban, Marko Alilovic i Branko Lozancic, rodjeni u Kanadi a borili su se za domovinu na bojiste.
Hvala da si tocno pokazal koliko ti stvarno znas.
Cestitam.
In Croatia, antifascism is a code word for anticroatianism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJCZjNY4tGA
NEMA PREDAJE
ANTEMURALE CHRISTIANITATIS
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2013/12/01/world/europe/ap-eu-croatia-gay-marriage.html?_r=0
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/croatia-votes-gay-marriages-21060315
Not even the Serbs in Istra and Rijeka could reverse the will of the Croat people.
Rejoice, Hrvati!
ANTEMURALE CHRISTIANITATIS!
http://www.tomislavjonjic.iz.hr/III_Baja.html
Jednaest svecenika su tvoji pobili na Daksi.
Kopile jedno, srpsko….
Zasto nam malo ne govoris ono sto su tvoji pocinili na Daksi?
Kopile jedno, crnogorsko….
I think its called tit for tat. It’s too bad any ustasa (and germans) survived WW II. I dont understand what so much pity for those fucker, we must to exterminated them?
ahahaa, nemam ja problema ni sa grbom ni sa bandjerom, a sto vise kuna imam u spagu to se bolje osjecam. ja se samo ne mogu gledat ustaska govna, sljam I olos hrvatskog naroda. i one sto ih podrzavaju.I nisu ti ustase(desnicari) stvorili hrvatsku nego djeca/momci kojima je barem jdan clan bio clan partije ili koji su I sami bili, ivo devcic moj susjed ostao bez noga do koljena , majka mu bila tajnica u mjesnoj zajednici u gruzu, clan partije, anton vatovic poginuo na srdju, majka mu bila clan partije, ja ni jednoga emigrant ne zmam da se borio ili njeegova djeca. dosli ste samo da pokradete hrvatsku govna jedna.
@ Anton
You are a disgrace to the Croatian people. Didn’t even read your comments because its a waste of time. How does it feel to look at the Croatian Flag, Grb, Kuna? You must be boiling inside. Croatia was created again in 1991 by all those you despise, the true right wing Croatians. You hide behind your BS website comments and are one of those cowards who wouldn’t even dare speak how you feel in public.
Bravo to the Croatians who voted against the commie liberal left swine, bravo.
!!!!!
evo kako se to u normalnom svijetu radi, a u ovoj nakaradnoj drzavi jos ih “mucenicima” proglasavaju..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEvyEM0JdSc
..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_mDUlxtRJM
..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st3rYBNrA6E
..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/02/nazi-officers-executed-in_n_703894.html
..
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jul/01/france-names-shames-collaborators
..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7861604/List-of-French-who-collaborated-with-Nazis-to-be-published-online.html
Amen Brate No More Genocide.
NO Doktor, “He (Ante Pavelic) dealt with internal affairs by exercising terror, passed many Nazi-type decrees…..and persecuted Croatians harshly if they did not agree with his proclaimed policies of racial purity and carrying out genocide.”
http://www.jusp-jasenovac.hr/Default.aspx?sid=6821
It’s a well documented fact that Pavelic and the Ustasha committed Genocide. They were horrific.
@ Anton
To say Genocide against Croatians in Bleigburg never occurred makes one a Genocide Denier. Much of what you say is communist propaganda designed to cover up and downplay the heinous crimes committed by Partisani.
No my good doktor the equation goes like this:
Dogmatic ideologue = fascist or communist scum.
Your sense of a moral compass is so skewed; this makes you filth good doktor.
koji genocide je TITO napravio, sto je pobio govna ustaska izdajnicka. pa takva govna su u svim normalnim zemljama na licu mjesta ubijali ko pse. sto mislis kako bi ustaska olos prosla, da su bili recimo u francuskoj 1945te
Svi svijetski povijesnicari pisu da su Ustase bile daleko najvece, najgenocidnije ubojice na ovim prostorima, Ako ne vjerujete idite na sajt americkog drzavnog Holocaust Museum-a u Washington-u pa procitajte clanak “Axis Invasion of Yugoslavia”, gdje pise tocno koliko stotina tisuca ljudi ustashe istrebise – Zidova, Roma, Srba i drugih
Upravo zbog tog sto cijeli svijet to zna, ovog tjedna su bile hrpe clanaka u njemackim i drugim medijima pod naslovima “Fasisticki skandal Simnunica”, “Fasisticki ispadi u Hrvatskoj” i slicno
A prema hrvatskom demografu Zerjavicu, za dom spremne ustashe, skupa s njihovim naci-fasitickim savjeznicima, pobise i daleko najvise Hrvata u povijesti, daleko vise no Milosevic ili bilo tko drugi
i sam Tudjamn, u svojoj knjzi “Bespucima povijesne nezbiljnosti” pise da su ustashe samo u Jasenovcu istrebile 70.000 ljudi. A Spomen podrucje Jasenovac sadrzi pojedinacna imena 83.000 istrebljenih, od kojih su 20.000 djeca ispod 14 godina, te 23.000 zene
U poredjenju s tim, Tudjman pise da je na svemu vezanom za Bleiburg stradalo oko 35 tisuca uglavnom vojnika, i to svih – ustasha, cetnika, slovenackih domoborana. S tim brojakama se slaze i Mitja Ferenec. glavno odgovororan za odkrivanje povojnih grobova u Sloveniji koj kaze da je ukupan broj pobijenih u Sloveniji u desetinama tisuca, i da su 93% tih bili pripadnici kvizlinskih vojski. Takodjer dosad medju oko 3 tisuca iskopanih iz povojnih grobova u Sloveniji nisu pronasli nijedno jedino djete, za razliku od ustaskog masovnog, planskog istrebljenja djece
Uglavnom i sam Tudjman je pisao da su ustashe pobile daleko vise ljudi, i to uglavnom zene, djecu i druge civile
Sad neki balkanski domorodci, za razliku od normalnog svijeta, se ocito ponose svojim smrdljivim fazismom. Isti balkanski fasizam zbog kojeg je Balkan pojam prezira u normalnom svijetu
Anti-Croats = Fascists.
I agree that there is no reason to romanticize or valorizr Tito & Pavelić. However, Pavelić has been condemned for crimes he committed and did not commit. Tito is hailed by the contemporary rulers of Croatia.
It is an historical fact that Tito is guilty of genocide, while Pqvelić is not. That’s just historical record. Don’t take it personally.
John S – does it matter what one thought prior to 91? It’s almost 2014 dude. We are all proud Croats here except if your Karadzic je govan. The question/debate needs to be how we move forward in this modern democratic world. Thankfully not commie or fascist scum world.
@ Anton
Guest what, these boys raised the money for a great cause. So your earlier comment as a 51 year old man is pretty pathetic.
@Anton
You didn’t answer the question. What did you call yourself before 1991?
@John S
I would consider my self of croatian nationality. I was 29 in 1991
@Denis Svircic and @Ante Kvartuc.
Well done with raising this money. Great idea. Good luck with the website.
@Anton
What are you even doing on this website and in particular why are you commenting on this specific topic about Joe Simunic? Your comments are completely irrelevant. Its people like you who ruin the spirit of this sort of website.
@Anton
Real curious Anton, what did you call yourself (nationality wise) before 1991 if you were even born.
hvala
evo vam malo pa se educirajte…
http://www.jutarnji.hr/ostavite-hajduk-na-miru–netko-vas-je-gadno-zajebao–to-nije-vas-klub/1143535/
@ Doktor
Genocide by it’s very definition is, “the deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation.”
And this is what took place in Jasenovac and The Bleigburg Massacres, as well as in many other instances. Crimes were committed as you state.
Therefore there is no need to valorize or romanticize Pavelic or Tito.
1more… Well done guys, this is a slam dunk
@CroatHrvat
ides li i ti u onaj cetnicki EXER. svi rvati u UK idu. cak ga i reklamiraju na onom “croats in the uk” site-u,
http://croatuk.proboards.com/thread/3480/exer-party-vazno-samo-subota
http://croatuk.proboards.com/thread/4868/exer-party-special-halloween-petak
http://croatuk.proboards.com/thread/4780/exer-party-rodjendan-subota-2012
ahahaaa, dijaspora siri bratstvo I jedinstvo, ahahaa
.
http://croatuk.proboards.com/thread/4714/tulum-folkkandi-cetvrtak-valmont-club
CroatHrvat a jel I ti ides u onaj cetnicki klub “EXER” tamo svi UK ‘rvati idu….cak im ga I reklamiraju na “croats in the uk”, ahahaa
.
http://croatuk.proboards.com/thread/4868/exer-party-special-halloween-petak
.
http://croatuk.proboards.com/thread/4780/exer-party-rodjendan-subota-2012
ahahaaa, jos niste skupili, ahahaaaa
@CroatHrvat,
Yes, we will. Thanks for asking.
@ Anonymous,
A letter from all of us will accompany the funds.
@ CroatHrvat,
The funds should convert by themselves through Paypal. As long as you tell Paypal to send $100 American, you will be fine. Thank you.
@ Denis
I’m over here in the UK. By my workings, £61 = $100. Will you accept my £61 if I send that via PayPal?
@Soul Champ
“Not the most gifted of players by Croatian standards but effective all the same.”
Niko Kranjčar is on record saying Joe’s technical skills and his ball control skills are as good as anyone on our team and when they have team competitions he usually wins.
http://is.gd/1MQaYr
@Soul Champ – Today on Mitchell&Ness.com 25% off the Drazen Petrovic throwback New Jersey Nets Jersey.
Uvijek Vjerni.
The 4 more will manifest!
I feel proud to be # 44 contributor as that was Drazen’s first NBA # for the Portland Trail Blazers. Drazen lived Za Dom with every atom of his being.
Svaka Cast CSR for taking a stand for the Croatian community to come together in a positive manner.
The soul of Croatia lives in the hearts of all Croatians throughout the world.
Big Joe has been an inspiration with his play for the Repka. From the beginning making the choice to go with his Croatian roots over Australia. To years of always being ready to suit up for the repka and give his total commitment. Using his athletic frame to defend “Za Dom.” Not the most gifted of players by Croatian standards but effective all the same.
Again I feel great that we are honoring his service as his excellence over time can be under appreciated by our arrogant media who compares every player to a standard that is often not informed by reality.
For the final four to give $100 to our people during the Holiday season, Hvala Vama i Svaka Cast.
Za Duh.
@ Doktor Prle – I applaud you for doing so. I mean that whole heartedly. I have made my mistakes. I try and not make the same ones. However, with so much information out there in the world, it would take one to quit his day job and just research truths all day. We shall continue this on another day.
Only 4 to go!
Surely someone must know a Croatian in North America that owns a construction company that would happily donate the funds.
Radman,
I’ve moved onto other things, obviously. Take it easy. I will recommence my search when I find time.
I’ve already expressed my willingness to retract certain statements if I do not find evidence for them. So don’t worry. I’m all about intellectual honesty and admitting fault when it needs to be done.
@ Uvijek – Thank you. I never really doubted that he was critical of him. Could you please provide me with the source. It has been ages since I have read some of his works. Manufacturing Consent and his debate with Foucault are the only ones I have read multiple times.
One man takes on (Predrag Raos) the entire neo-communist, totalitarian and homosexual lobby of the Croatian Writers Society.
http://www.24sata.hr/politika/pogledajte-show-predraga-raosa-na-konferenciji-pisaca-343170
You also said he was a supporter of Milosevic and a greater Serbia, Genocide minimizer. If you are going to throw one quote out I want proof on all claims.
@Petar Radman-Livaja
Chomsky – “After having roughly equalized the balance of terror by providing arms and training for the forces of Croatian dictator Tudjman and supporting his violent expulsion of Serbians from Krajina and elsewhere.”
@ Doktor Prle – Work referenced please? Call me old fashion, I still like my facts on dead trees.
@Uvijek – I cannot recall the exact quote, but, yes I do believe he was very critical of Tudman. Having said that, I believe you would be hard pressed to find a world leader he is not critical of. Read “Profit over People” and you can better see his rational.
More importantly, only 4 people left to join!!
I am curious as to what happens once the mission is complete. I know the overall objective. However, how will you guys execute it. Will someone be flying to Zagreb to meet with Joe? I will assume that he will not accept these funds. He recently married a young Croatian girl I knew from the Greater Toronto Area. A bunch of people I know went to the wedding. From what I hear, he does not need the money. If that is true, a childrens, womens or seniors charity somewhere is Croatia would be the best gift just before Christmas.
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/spiegelspecial/d-22937248.html
Oh, boy… more damning articles on the “great” Tito. This time from leftist Der Spiegel dealing with Tito’s destruction of Yugoslavia’s (mainly Croatia) German minority.
Ante, we’re almost there. With pretty much a day to go. We’ll reach the goal. We always do.
Znam da sam dosadan ko proljev ali 5 more!! AJMO!!
ADESTE FIDELES LAETI TRIUMPHANTES!!!
Did he ever call Tito a dictator? Who knows. Maybe he did. I doubt it, though.
Chomsky is a very intelligent, but I lost respect for him when he called Franjo Tuđman a dictator in 1999.
” – Naravno da je Jugoslavenska narodna armija priskočila u pomoć srpskoj manjini. Tako da je njemačka inicijativa predstavljala odlučujući korak koji je donio taj ogromni sukob” – rekao je Chomsky, prenosi B92.
Translation:
“Of course the Yugoslav People’s Army jumped to the aid of the Serbian minority. Thus, the German initiative was the decisive step that brought about the great conflict.”
@Petar
“any rational human being knows titio was scum”
not according to quite a few posts on this website, hell some were calling him a saviour and hero
Remember when it comes to the Croatian cause much of the media is against us and never an easy thing to come across a reputatable source. At the end of the day Doktor Prle has done an incredible job of standing up to all the jugo scum that have attacked anyone who expresses a love for Hrvatska.
Appreciate some of the sites you have mentioned and if you have any good links please do post them as it will benefit our community.
Bog i Hrvati
@ Doktor Prle – “Is Chomsky not responsible for what he says in different forums and venues? Or is only what he’s written that which is to be taken seriously?”
Please provide me with an example or scenario so I may best answer that. Are you asking if he should be held accountable only for print or his spoken word as well? I am just trying to be clear. Obviously, print is always ideal. I am just looking for some clarity on the question.
Packing up for the end of the day and the long drive home so my response may be delayed.
Petar,
Is Chomsky not responsible for what he says in different forums and venues? Or is only what he’s written that which is to be taken seriously?
Chomsky calls the Serbian resistance to the NAZIS brave and admirable. There was no resistance. But we’ll just sweep that under the rug.
He revolutionized Linguistics. That is a fact. I will not presume to know your academic background. However, if you can name one scholar that has contributed more in the past 60 years I would like to know.
Again, I ask for proof against Chomsky. Actual works of his referenced to support claims.
Other than that, all the best to you in your future endeavors.
My apologies, I have the wrong article on Chomsky/Zizek. The other is far more in depth, sadly the link is on my other cpu.
Chomsky is the most respected intellectual alive? OK. 🙂
5 more!!
Petar Radman-Livaja he already admitted that he would not donate to a cause like this.
http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2013&mm=03&dd=21&nav_category=11&nav_id=697308
Petar,
Chomsky blames Germany for the recognition of Croatia and basically says it understood that the JNA would aid Croatia’s terrorist Serbs.
If you’ve got the video, post it. I’m all for learning new things every day.
I’m still searching to back up what I’ve written. If I don’t come up with anything, I’ll have to retract what I’ve said. But give me some time.
@ Frane – Who knows if he did or did not donate? Perhaps his name is on the list and he went with his real name? I would be shocked if his name is not on the list.
Brate, Chomsky is the most respected intellectual alive. He has constantly fought against these claims and not one person was able to prove their story. A Slovenian “academic” was proved to be false just over a few months ago for his accusations.
http://www.openculture.com/2013/06/noam_chomsky_slams_zizek_and_lacan_empty_posturing.html
The article you provided proves nothing. All he said was that the he was a good reporter but he got some things wrong. I cannot come across one cited source from Chomskys works that this reporter makes reference to.
Provide a source, that is all I ask. Directly from his works.
How come Ziva-Istana didn’t donate?
That guy is a sham!
Lost all credibility!!
Also, I have video proof of Mr Chomsky calling Milosevic a monster and a murderer. If you care to view the interview, I will post it.
Did you know Chomsky is a genocide denier, too? I won’t go as far to call him that. I’ll call him a genocide minimizer.
Wow, even Ed Vuillamy, whom I detest, got it right on Chomsky.
http://greatersurbiton.wordpress.com/2009/11/02/noam-chomsky-and-amnesty-international-two-open-letters/
@ Doktor Prle – I want you to provide the proof of the claims you have made against Chomsky. Many have tried, I cannot recall one has succeeded. Chomsky has done nothing but chastise the Communists for their crimes. Again, I would simply like you to prove it.
If Alan Dershowitz could not prove any of his claims as he stood looking out an assembly at Harvard, I am going to have my doubts that you may as well.
Also, what establishment is Chomsky a part of? He is the son of Hebrew Scholars and for his own work his labeled “A self Hating Jew” by his very community for his views on the debacle in the middle east. He has staunchly supported Norman Finkelstein in his works against the use of the Holocaust as a marketing tool by the Jewish community and that very fight cost Mr Finkelstein his tenure at DePaul University and earned Chomsky even more scorn from his Jewish brothers and sisters. He was even barred from a visit to Israel. His work against the American administration since the late 50s has deemed him even to dangerous for the so called “left”
I really fail to see what establishment he belongs to.
You and I have completely different views on Nixon. That man was a criminal, further to the point a war criminal. The FBI deemed that he was too dangerous for the presidency.
@ Ljubuski – have missed no point. Any rational human being knows that Tito was scum. That is beyond debate. However, if you are going to prove your point, do not go down the same path as those you criticize. Do I have anything against Mr Doktor Prle? No, I have never met him and from first glance he appears to be a well read passionate individual. However, if you will criticize your opponents for using Wikipedia, than you yourself should use far more reputable publications than the Daily Mail. That is all.
Remember, Chomsky was an out-spoken supporter of Milosevic’s both greater-Serbian and communist regime. He even went as far to blame the Croats for the dissolution of Yugoslavia and called for the conviction of Croatian generals Gotovina & Markac.
@Petar,
Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, The Daily Mail cannot. That said, no one’s claiming that the Daily Mail is the ministry of truth or an ultra-reputable or credible paper.
What the Daily Mail did get right, however, is placing Tito on the list of the world’s greatest dictators and butchers of the 20th century. And for that, their editorial staff should be commended.
As far as Stone is concerned, I have nothing against him, really. I like his movies, particularly Wall Street and Platoon. However, he should be ashamed of what he attempted to do to Nixon, arguably the best and smartest president we’ve had in the last 100 years.
Stone is an extreme Marxist, and should be considered as such. If you hang out with that retard and bolesnik Slavoj Zizek – in Zagreb to boot – where Josipovic even opens his doors for them, well, than nothing more needs to be said.
These guys are part of the establishment, just like Chomsky, against which they supposedly rail. They’re frauds.
They will be taken seriously when they condemn communist crimes, and not support Milosevic and other communist butchers – like Chomsky does.
Oliver Stone never accepted the help of the CIA division of Operation Hollywood as he made ‘Platoon”. Even though the practice of CIA funding for Hollywood films is still common practice today, as long as script approval is met. You can look at Michael Bay and Jerry Bruckheimer as two that have actively sought that route.
Nor did Kubrick as he made “Full Metal Jacket” or Coppola for “Apocalypse Now”
@petar
seems you are missing the point here
Doktor Prle pointed out just what Tito and his partizan party did to Croats. Many want to downplay thiese crimes or bury them but we shouldn’t. Tito is not a Hero to the Croatian people.
Doktor Prle – If you do not see what is wrong with the Daily Mail, go on and keep reading. Add CNN to the list.
I do not even care to weigh in on the tiny debate you and the other have going. I just find it humorous that someone who chastised others for using Wikipedia choose to use the Daily Mail. How many times have they been sued and lost in court exactly?
Oliver Stone actually tries to provoke some challenging thought against conventional thinking in film.
Its okay, I will continue to read Chomsky and you can read the Daily Mail.
I need to rephrase what I wrote, for clarity: Wherever the Serbs were a majority of the populace on the territory of NDH, they remained so at the conclusion of the war and after the destruction of NDH.
Thus, no genocide.
http://www.serendipity.li/hr/bleiburg_massacres.htm
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/nno17565/myth/mven01.htm
Pavelic didn’t commit genocide. The Serbs remained a majority in every city, town and village on the territory of NDH in 1945 as they were in 1941. Nothing changed, as far as demographics go. Thus, no genocide was committed. Were crimes committed, sure. No one ever claimed otherwise.
Croatians, however, were completely exterminated from Drvar, Boricevac and Udbina. That’s genocide right there.
Tito murdered more people only in the spring of 1945 than any other dictator in Europe at the time. Hundreds of thousands of soliders, women, children and the elderly were exterminated.
The amount of Croats killed in the marches of death numbers in the hundreds of thousands. These crimes were committed after the war ended. The Croats are small people, and when you kill hundreds of thousands of a people that numbers in roughly 5 million at the time, well, you get the picture.
@ Doktor
While you make valid points. Realize that Pavelic’s reign of Terror existed for only 4 years. While Tito’s Hell existed for 35 years, so obviously Tito had the opportunity to commit more crimes. Neverthess, Pavelic and the Ustasha committed Genocide.
Just because the Commies committed more crimes, this shouldn’t be used to justify or downplay the crimes committed by Ustasha.
I donated this morning as well.
From my count that is 3 today and leaves us with 6 to go!
What exactly is wrong with the Daily Mail? It’s not some socialist paper so it’s suspect, ha? Ok, I won’t go there.
Nobody ever said the source was the best, but that was entirely beside the point. The point was – and it seems to be evading all of you – is that Pavelic & Tito aren’t in the same league as far as crimes are concerned. Tito is a top-tier murderer, while Pavelic doesn’t even make consideration.
Those are the facts.
BTW: Oliver Stone? Good God….
I donated earlier this morning as well…
ZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA JOE!
i just donated. I thought I read on an earlier post that there’s a mechanism by which the contributers can leave a short message to Joe when the funds are presented? will that be available later? thx
Come on decki, 9 more people! Spread the word to your friends and family.
ZA DOM SPREMNI
@doktor pole
Good work. You always back up your points with good links/references. This is good for the Croatian community. It will educate many who might have been misinformed by the propoganda and bias towards Croatians. Hvala.
Shouldnt there be a Stimac fund to buy him lots of BERETS etc ?? : )
Dobro Jutro Svima!
I respect the views of all Croatians on this hot button topic.
I too had to do some soul searching on where I stand.
Za Dom stirs my SOUL and actually has deep meaning in my life that cannot be defined by some outer political entity. And their are times when U Boj fills my stomach when readiness is needed.
I love all beings within our Earth Community.
AND…
I need for the Croatian people to enjoy their own unique expression within our world not at the expense of others freedom, but in celebration of our own.
I chose to contribute to this fund as I trust the money will find its way to the people in Vukovar, who have truly taking a stand of what Za Dom really means.
I also have great respect for CSR and Big Joe for their service over the years as prva generacija for the greater Croatian community.
I also believe in my heart that Big Joe was speaking to the community that has been in struggle for many years with the intent to inspire. I understand the political reaction but feel it is being sourced from obvious agendas that undermine Croatia.
Za DUH!
Brate Petar – I’m pretty familiarly with Chomsky. I’ve surfed for some years now and Kelly Slater quotes Chomsky often which peaked my interest. Thank you for the reading material suggestions.
@ What Would our Savor Say – Thank you for the kind words, sir.
Check out those documentaries!
Some suggested reading material would be anything by Chomsky (Stay away from his works on Linguistics. My cousin has her PhD in Linguistics and even she admits that very few can comprehend him there. He literally revolutionized the field with his work. His Political/Philosophical works are his best. I dont know if you recall when Chavez was at the UN a few years ago. He actually advised the entire UN congress to read Chomsky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6WX64O8S1U
Howard Zinn is an amazing writer. Norman Finkelstein as well. Michel Foucault is another. Platos “The Republic” is always a classic read. Satre and Camus are also brilliant minds.
Good Luck.
Petar – thank you. I’m sure it will be good watch. You are an intellectual and something tells me a warrior as well. Our ancestry is proud of you.
My appologies. The Documentary is titled, “Is The Man who is Tall Happy?
@ What would our Savior say – Brother, I love “The Fog of War” Errol Morris is a genius! I have a pretty great collection of Docs and that one is near the top of the list. Oliver Stone recently completed a documentary called “The Untold History of the United States”. Its been out for over a year now. Absolutely fantastic.
Some other good Docs to check out, if you are interested;
The Power of Nightmares
The Century of the self (The first two are made by Adam Curtis. He is an amazing director. Both will give you goosebumps)
Why we Fight
The Corporation
The World According to Bush
Dirty Wars
The Untold History of The United States
The War Against Democracy (Jon Pilger, great investigative journalist)
Manufacturing Consent (Based on my personal hero, Noam Chomsky) Part 2 of this DVD has some of his best debates. Check out both he and Foucault discussing the idea of Human Nature. Also, him giving a lecture to the graduating class of Philosophy at West Point. The focus was on just war theory. The best is he and Alan Dershowitz at Harvard discussing Isreal/Palestine. Chomsky lays a beating on him!
Michel Gondry, the director of the Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind has also just completed a documentary of sorts on Chomsky. Its just the two just having a conversation and the ideas proposed by Chomsky are expanded with illustration.
It is entitled ‘Is The Tall Man Happy?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9c4xJEP6eI
Petra – solid analysis Brate.
Watch documentary Fog of War and he’ll tell you himself he’s in the top 10.
@ John S – I believe it was Mr Black in a another section who brought him (Mocinic) up first. During the current Under 21 campaign he has gone from a non selection to a reserve to full starter in a matter of just 5 games. He is a player I will have to get a better look at. Seems to have a lot of momentum on his side.
And of all sources to use, the Daily Mail? Good Lord. You are a hop skip and a jump away from using Wikipedia.
@ Doktor Prle – The article you list as your evidence is a load garbage and I would not use it as an attempt to prove your point. Not one Western leader or general makes the list? Robert McNamara himself admits that he and those in the American administration/Military were behaving like war criminals. Two atomic weapons used, hundreds of thousands of women and children burned to death with Incendiary bombs.
No doubt that everyone on the list is scum. I just notice that the pro western bias is quite pathetic.
http://www.hrhb.info/showthread.php?t=5327&p=292341&viewfull=1#post292341
John S,
I only acknowledge those that bring arguments. Not trolls. I haven’t seen anyone bring an argument. Yugoslavs are trolls and rank fools. Occasionally,, someone will write something of half-value to which I am forced to respond to. But for the most part, this is just blowing off steam.
KEEP CALM – AND ZA DOM SPREMNI
Anyone see this kid Ivan Mocinic play for Rijeka? I like him. Needs to work on his strength a bit but could be a star.
Unless an injury occurs, he will be going to a new club maybe even in the next transfer window.
@ Doktor Prle
These guys don’t even know what happened between 1991-1995 because they were coming out of hiding. I’m sure they didn’t have any family members fighting in the war. They don’t even know what the acronym HOS stands for. They were fine with being part of Yugoslavia, that is how they were raised.
All your points are excellent, but do not debate with them anymore. Its useless and they are a non factor. You are giving them a forum and some attention that they never had before. Lets get back to soccer and help Denis and Ante build upon this sports website.
and according to Black Zodiac apparently Tito is a hero,
LOL
@John S, very well said, it explains quite a bit what we are dealing with here
A sto sam ja reko?
MAJKU VAM JEBEM JUGOSLAVENSKU!
The crimes of Croats cannot even be compared to the crimes of the Yugoslav communists. There is just no comparison. Marshal Tito ranks in the top 10 mass-murders of the twentieth century. And you idiots want to talk about Croat crimes. Wow, you’re so fucking dumb.
NO better than Serbs, you say? The Serbs killed 100,000 people only 15-20 years ago, and they established an ethnically-pure state within a state in BiH built via genocide. And live on CNN. And you want to compare Croats to Serbs?
Wow, you definitely are a dumb son of a cunt.
Ustasi = Commie = Chetnik SCUM! All SCUM! But I must forgive Brate.
Accept Tito’s crimes, you criminal son of a bitch.
MAJKU ti jebem jugoslavensku.
Damn, shit is getting heated in this bitch:
I’m looking for Pavelic on this list, but I can’t seem to find him. Tito’s there. I’m shocked!!! The good Tito? On this list. I can’t believe it. LOL
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2091670/Hitler-Stalin-The-murderous-regimes-world.html
@ Freedom 91 and Radnik
So obvious that you were raised by Yugoslav/Partisan parents, meaning you were afraid to say you were Croatian, go to Croatian gatherings before 1991. This way you could get your visa and go visit your Yugoslav/Partisan families.
Bang on Brate Radnik – our salvation only begins when we accept the crimes of the past for what they are, then move forward for the better and peaceful future within the modern world. We say we are better than Serbs – we’ll lets f-ing show it.
There was no freedom of speech in an ustasha Croatia. The ustasha oppressed ANYONE who didn’t agree with their fascist political system, and genocidal policies. Many croatians who wanted democracy were put to death, this was a regime. A Croatia run by the Usasha is not a place you would ever want to live in.
Same shit happened under communism. Yugoslavia was no better. That was a terrible place too.
CONDEMN TITO AND YUGOSLAVIA!!! CONDEMN THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM. CONDEMN JOSIPOVIC, MESIC AND MILANOVIC.
Then talk about the ustase,
Majku ti jebem krvavu!!! NITKO krvolocniji od vas kurvinih sinova, jugoslavena!!!
The Croatian national soccer team will most likely be playing in North America within the next 2 years. There is a good chance it might even happen before Brazil.
@truth or power
SRAM te bilo!
Types like u do nothing but divide our nation.
If we want to grow as a nation we must look forward not backwards, living in the past celebrating, saluteing and approving of what the ustasa did is not a way to grow.
Your thought process and cunduct shows that you are nothing but a bloodthirsty hateful man and if you had your way you’d slit the throats of those that dont have your beliefs or fit the decorum. = fascism.
JOHN S,
Svaka ti cast.
A vama jugoslavenima, pa vec znate. Jebem ja vase majke.
Jebem ti mater jugoslavensku
The Ustaša and the Hrvatska Stranka Prava were the only ones who fought for Croatian People and a Croatian nation. All these individuals who are bad mouthing Croatian Freedom fighters I can assure you considered themselves Yugoslavs and never did and will never know true Croatian history or culture. Why doesn’t anyone truly talk about what happened at Bleiberg ? Because they are all former Yugoslavs who’s grandfathers and fathers were responsible for the massacre. It’s as simple as that. The current Croatian President’s , Josipovic, father ran at one point the notorious Goli Otok concentration camp. You were placed there if you just as simply sang a Croatian song. Unfortunately since Croatia lost the war in 1945 against the communist partisans we were not able to be part of writing any history books. For those of you who slam the ustaša you should read a few books written more objective people. You anti Croatian, Yugoslav educated should all take the time out a read a bit on what happened in Bleiberg.
BTW, Joe Simunic will most likely retire from the Croatian nation team before Brazil anyway.
The ustase were a war-time regime that respected the rights of all Croats and all minorities that upheld the law of the Croatian state. The ustase only repressed anti-Croats, Yugoslavs and Serbs that were opposed to the Croatian state and raised their hand to the Croatian people.
If you raised your hand against a Croat or the Croatian state, you got it cut off. Politics of reciprocation. Everything that was done, was done in defense. Never in offense or aggression. The ustase were a reactionary group that stood against Serbian hegemony and Bolshevik revolution.
Wow truth to power – are you saying your doing it with you know who? You are one no good Hrvat! Once again I forgive you Brate.
The ustasha were fascist oppressors. They took away people’s individual rights. If you didn’t agree with their racial and political policies you would be killed. An ustasha run Croatia is not a place you want to live in.
Next came the jugos which oppressed croatians and ran a commie state. If you didn’t like it, you would “disappear.”
Finally we got our Freedom in 1991!!! Hrvatska!!!
Ti i ja nismo braca, jebem ti mater jugoslavensku. Ne jebem ja svoju mater. Nego tvoju.
Is it through or though you scum. Again I forgive you Brate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUpgUGA2wbo
I am an ustasa, through and though. I jebat cu ti mater jugoslavensku.
I forgive you truth to power. You are an Ustasi scum.
FOLKS!!!
Here’s a video that explains the entire history of Serb-Croat conflict. This is the truth. No punches pulled. Take the 1:25 to watch this video. It will compensate for your lack of reading actual literature:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUpgUGA2wbo
cetnici = partizani.
jugoslavija = velika srbija.
jebem ti mater glupu!
@truth to power
Daj odjebi seronja mali! Pojma nemas peder jedan!
Jebem vam majku svi cetnikske I ustaske fasiste!
http://orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/efasc
Glupsone, evo ti pa citaj. Niti ne razumis terminologiju kojom se sluzis. Jebem ti mater neobrazovanu.
&doctor
Smri se! Znamo sta ti mislis fasista. Boli te kurac!
Ustase su se borile za slobodnu i nezavisnu Hrvatsku, a vi se borite za njezin nestanak – kao i nestanak hrvatskog naroda…
Majku vam jebem jugoslavensku.
The glorification or rehabilitation of Ustasi scum makes you no better than Commie or Chetnik scum.
ZA DOM SPREMNI!!!
@johnS Well done-
We have independent Croatia, going to Brazil and we are supporting Big Joe… Life is good!
Drinking dome fine Plavac Mali for Thanksgiving-Zivili to all real Croats- you know who you are .
* jebati 🙂
Amen Brate Freedom 91.
@Pavelic jerHeroj,
Raspravljati s tobom o talijansko-hrvatskim (ustaskim) odnosima u vrijeme Drugog svjetskog rata je kao da ja s tobom razgovaram kako je to imati kurac, a ti ga nemas…. kako je to jebate zene i pisati stojeci, a ti ne znas kako je to. Jer nemas kurac.
Nema svrhe, sugavce jugoslavenski.
Potkrijepite svoje pisanije nekakvim izvorima, inace nema rasprave. Sugavci jugoslavenski.
The Ustasha shamed Croatia. They were facist, hitler aligned, anti-democratic, and as Anton showed us slaughtered the innocent. Jasenovac was run solely by the Usasha. This slaughterhouse murdered croatians and others.
Tito and the partisans were bad too,and committed genocide such as bleigburg massacres. Both ustasha and partisans committed crimes.
Good Doktor our brave and noble Ustasi? I mean really….. The old, women and children – Hrvati? Say it ain’t so good doktor.
Good Doktor Prle
You were ubiquitous just yesterday or so. What Anton wrote – is their any truth to this?? I mean the old, women and children – Hrvati. If there’s some truth to this, is this not anti-Croatian good doktor? Di si doktor?
i’m all for za dom spremni (although nowadays we’re supposed to be ready for brussels and belgium rather than zagreb). so i am all for people shouting za dom spremni. i am not for torcida or anyone else following that with ajmo ajmo ustase. The desire for an independent croatia is noble. but the ustase shamed croatians and the catholic church through what they did in those concentration camps. there is no way anyone can condone the killings of that man men, WOMEN, and CHILDREN. if you want to support croatia, i’m all for it. if you want to chant za dom spremni i am for it to. but lets do nothing than glorifies the ustase
Jebem mater svim Srbima i Jugoslavenima. Kratko i jasno.
I’m going to make this as short as possible. Denis and Ante, well done on creating this site and creating the fund raiser for Joe Simunic. It has definitely made some sort of impact. As for all of the pro-Croatian people on the site, well done. There is no need for you to waste your time debating with anti-Croatians. The bottom line is that we now have an independent Croatian nation. One that we fought very hard for. The current Croatian government is obviously very leftist, pro-communist, pro-yugoslavia. For all of us who never excepted the word Yugoslavia and fought for a free Croatia before 1991, we should be very proud of achieving our goal. Interesting how the anti-Croatians never talk about Bleiberg Croatian Massacre. They are still discovering mass graves in Slovenia and Austria but everyone is hush hush about it. Anyway, it’s a waste of time trying to debate with anti-Croatians. What we need to do in order to make a difference is to start lobbying for a better voter turnout in the next Croatian elections and get the current elected officials out. It will happen eventually. Ante and Denis continue the good work. Joe Simunic you are a very courageous and proud Croatian. Your parents must be very proud. Long live a free Croatia and lets raise the cup in Brazil. They all said that there would never be a fee Croatia again, well guess what, they were wrong. Lets deliver another dream come true in Brazil. Lets continue to support the HNS and players. Zivila nasa nezavisna Hrvatska and god bless all those who sacrificed the ultimate for our homeland.
Amen Brate Chupe.
Hrvatska je uvijek bila Hrvatska ubijek sam pije i ija piva i svira u mojoj domovini Hrvatskoj bila to 80e ili90e ili sada jebes ustase partizane cetnike i sve ostale moji nisu bili ni ustase ni partizani nego domobrani tako da zivila Hrvatska.
Thanks Denis
I will avoid all articles which has the potential to be poisoned by Serb bullshit.
Cheers
Jure francetić i rafael Boban are heroes!! Ustaše are heroes and iam proud of the brave freedom fighters who fought for Croatian freedom!!
I’m no Jew or Serb. I’m the most veliki Hrvat!!
@Rob,
I agree. However, if you dont want to see this, then dont come on this article. Croatians Around Europe is up as well as some other articles.
@JM,
I wonder if Simunic knows. We’ll find out one day.
Can someone start banning this bullshit?
This is supposed to be a site which discussing Croatian sporting achievements. This site was awesome now it is becoming corrupted by Serb bullshit
Can we please get back to chatting about Croatian sport?
Ne mišaj Ustaše i Hrvate. To nije isti pojam, isto ka što ni Četnik nije isto što i Srbin. Prema tome, ajte lipo leći i bog vam da zdravlja
Joj ajmo svi puske i u pantovcak hahah. Let it go.
This shit is starting to be a drag. How many times do you people have to repeat yourselves until you realize you’re not gonna change each other’s minds? Holy shit. Let it go. It’s like the special Olympics of debates on here.
Well said Slavonac!
Ive and his family are clearly class of ’91ers.
Ive – you’ve provided us a link to a person that has an opinion and to make matters very clear…he expresses his views as his own…a huge population of people enjoy him…and equally a HUGE portion of people despise him! the only thing that make Miljenko relavant in this discussion is YOU…so I’ll chime in and say he’s a person who’s got his own perception of what a Nazi is…nobody was condoning Nazism when they so emotionally chanted Za Dom and U Boj…most other Croatians feel that “Za Dom” means nothing more than a patriotic phrase!
you have no tolerance for patriotism but at the same time you haven’t spoken out against the 3 finger salute, burning of the Croatian Flag, Serbs provoking Croats in saying Vukovar is their….and so on!
There are many many theories about WW11, Jasenovac and how many died. each side will argue their point. I for one am not proud of any type of camp for genocide…one murder is too many….but the exaggerations the Serbs and Jews carry out are also quite ridiculous. although its taboo to suggest there wasn’t any gassing or ovens at Auschwitz…there hasn’t ever been evidence to suggest the numbers claimed…I say this full well knowing there were atrocities…but the numbers have never been even remotely proven!
Yugoslavia never did anything good for the majority of Croats although many enjoyed the benefits of not having to work so hard and in return you’d get fully paid vacations, if you belonged to “the party” you usually received a “stan”…and you most likely secured a job forever…same shit every day of your life! security, vacation, food on the table…Communism!
before 1918 many parts of Croatia had a low percentage of Serbs…by the 80’s it was clear….the majority of officers and generals in the JNA were Serbs, the government jobs even where Serbs were the very low minority were held by them, professors in universities, chief of police, mayor of the city in many Croatian towns were all Serbs even though they were the minority!
Ive, tell me, was Stjepan Radic wrong when he firmly opposed uniting with Serbs? hindsight is 20/20 so I ask you…my grandparents lost their family business to communism, my home town was a majority of Croatians and yet…Serbs dominated in political and prestigious government jobs…they had a “say”…
You are ashamed for Croats and at the same time you don’t feel patriotic enough to learn why Croatians are who we are! You most likely come from a family that enjoyed their life under Tito and never felt the wrath of losing opportunity or your identity…because you’ve always identified yourself as many do today…a Yugoslav!
Just appreciate the irony Brate.
Guys stop with this Serb Cro Jugo stuff. Qar is bad but the saying goes Rat je uvijek bio nekom Brat!
How was Pavelic a Heroj?
I mean really….. The old, women and children! Good doktor say it ain’t so??
DIIIIIIIIIINAMOOOOO!!!!
1-0, 20′ min!
All these Serbs crying about wartime atrocities are hilarious!
“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!”
You cunts are no fuckin angels, so take your 3 fingers and shove ’em up your asses!
@Ive
How do you know where we live on an anonymous forum smart guy?
Since you are so very ashamed when the diaspora come to spend their money to the “seaside”, why don’t you show some real fucking principles and stand in the airports all summer and tell them what you really think, given it is pretty obivious your principles far outweigh the economic benefits of tourism.
P.S. Were you this ashamed when the diaspora assisted your sorry asses during the Homeland war?
Fucking hypocritical Jugo scum.
80 000 Thousand people killed with the official greeting “Za dom Spremni” JUST IN JASENOVAC!
And u ignorant iliterate people pretend like it never happend.
Ur not Croats ur The shame that makes me ASHAMED to be CROATIAN!
U are simply said NAZIS! If u are ignorning the fact how many people got killed with the official “za dom spremni” Greetin…
http://depo.ba/front/mars-u-p-m-nacisticki-gade
Informisite se malo majku vam NAZISTICKU!
Im a shamed to be Croat with people like you!
Thank god u guys live in countrys where u have no idea what life in croatia is except when u come to the sea side and fix ur teeth!
@ denis
i’m curious. any response from simunic on csr’s “fundraising” effort?
Oh my God. Is their any truth to this good doktor?
@Anton
Upravo Antone, ti se za mene Jugoslavensko djubre a ne Hrvat…..to svi moze lako vidit.
Otidji tamo di propadas medju svoji bre!
truth to power,,ahahaa majmune ja sam HRVAT (po rodjenju katolik),
pobegulje pobjegle ko gologuzani od gladi jada I bijede a sad kao da su morali otici zbog “politike”,
@ Anton – OLUJA! Hahahahahahahaha
Pati!
Rakitić might be going to the EPL this January.
Man United, Chelsea, and Liverpool all interested. The price is expected to be over 20 million USD.
Jebem ti majku pravoslavnu.
Can we please remove this scumbs comments, im totally for freedom of speech but this is just pure hatred from this Serb sympathiser. Can we make some kind of login badges just like any other website to be able to comment?
Thanks
Okitili su si kucu ustaškim porukama. U srpnju prošle godine obiteljska kuca na podrucju Šibenika osvanula je s ispisanim natpisima “Ustaški dom (imena i prezime clanova obitelji), za dom spremni”.
————————-
ahaha al ovi su mi naj zesci, ne znas bi li se smijo ili plako. ajde da su u hercegovini ili zagrebu, pa da covjek I cijeni. zive za i umiru za svoje “ideale”.
alu dalmaciji, sibeniku koji nije cak bio ni NDH nego druga drzava,…
.
U ožujku 1943. Komanda 18. talijanskog korpusa je donijela odluku o “cišcenju” podrucja koje se prostiralo u trokutu Šibenik – Drniš – Trogir. Sa tog prostora odvedeno je kompletno muško stanovništvo, od 15 godine pa na dalje i to u za tu svrhu podignut privremeni konc-logor na otoku Zlarinu (rt Martin). Ljudi su ovdje dovodeni kontinuirano u iduca tri mjeseca. Procjenjuje se da se radilo o oko 2500 ljudi, koji su s postupno internirani dalje u logore i zatvore na talijanskom tlu. Kada je logor bio evakuiran 15.06.1943, u njemu je bilo 1200 ljudi.
Najgore mucenje je bilo ono žedu, voda se logorašima dijelila svaki 3 ili 4 dan, i to cetvrt litre po osobi, tako da su ljudi brzo padali u izbezumljena stanja, pristup moru im nije bio dozvoljen pa se ni higijena uopce nije mogla održavati. Zaraze su se pojavile u trenu, tifus, proljevi…., nužde su se mogle vršiti u samo dvije jame, a ispred njih je red morao biti besprijekoran, svako odstupanje se kažnjavalo batinanjem, a oni koji nisu “stigli” do jame, najcešce su batinani do smrti. Ustanovljeno je da je dvije trecine zarobljenih proslijedeno dalje u logore na prisilni rad i to u logor u Rijeci, u logor Renici kraj Arezza i u logor Visco kod Udina. Nakon talijanske kapitulacije 43 bivša zatvorenika iz zlarinskog logora deportirano je u njemacke logore. Kraj rata doživjelo je njih 12.
cak su na dan kad je obznanjena kapitulacija Italije 9.09.1943. deportirali 600 Šibencana na Molat
Ovako potpukovnik Gualtiero Sestilli, zapovjednik karabinjerskog bataljuna u Šibeniku, u lipnju 1941. izvještava talijansku Vladu za Dalmaciju o stanju u Šibeniku: “Policijsko-politicke vlasti u Šibeniku mlitavo postupaju prema stanovništvu iako ono gaji antitalijanske osjecaje pa bi trebalo upotrijebiti cvrstu batinu i ricinusovo ulje..” Takoder traži da vlada hitno izda dekret za protjerivanje Hrvata te da se u njihove kuce nasele odabrani Talijani.
Logor Kampor na otoku Rabu je jedan od najvecih zlocina Talijana, u njemu je pobijeno(pušteno da skoncaju od izgladivanja) nekoliko tisuca ljudi, mada je samo oko 1500 do danas identificirano.
Ljudi su u njemu boravili na otvorenom, najvecim dijelom, odnosno pod šatorima u manjem dijelu. Zanimljivo je da je i nekoliko tisuca židova prošlo kroz taj logor.
Po podacima od 1941-43 kroz njega je prošlo izmedu 10-15 tisuca ljudi.
Podhum:
12. srpnja 1942. spaljeno je selo Podhum, strijeljani su svi muškarci od 15 do 60godina a 800 staraca, djece i žena odvedeno je u talijanske konc-logore. Osim Podhuma gorjela su i sela Kukuljani, Milaši, Zoretici i Brnelici.
Lipa:
30. travnja 1944. godine, dok je 1. istarska brigada vodila borbe na drugom podrucju, fašisti su izvršili strahovit zlocin u selu Lipi. Oko 14,30 sati poceli su opkoljavati selo; u mjesto su ušli oko 15 sati. Pljackali su sve docega su došli: vrijednije predmete, novac, stoku, poljoprivredni alat. Vršili su silovanja, a zatim žrve ubijali i masakrirali. Mrcvarili su i klali starce, pa cak i djecu u kolijevkama. Palili su kuce i gospodarske zgrade. Taj užas je trajao puna dva sata. Partizani, koji su slijedeceg jutra ušli u selo, našli su 21 unakažen leš. Neki su bili toliko unakaženi da ih je bilo nemoguce identificirati.
Vecinu stanovnika neprijatelji su sakupili i poveli cesto prema mjestu Rupa, navodno u logor. Kod posljednje seoske kuce oduzeli su im zavežljaje koje su sa sobom nosili. Ljude su strpali u zgradu, a onda ih zajedno s kucom zapalili. Na zgarištu su pronadeni samo dijelovi pougljenih ostataka skerleta. Dokumentaciju o izvršenom zlocinu ostavili su sami fašisti, koji su snimali svoju zlocinacku rabotu.
Tako je u vremenskom razdoblju od dva sata uništeno jedno cijelo selo. Spaljeno je ukupno 135 kuca i gospodarskih zgrada. Ubijena su tog dana 263 stanovnika Lipe, vecinom starci, žene i djeca. Nekolicina ubijene djece nije bila starija od godine dana; ubijena su u kolijevkama ili u narucjima majki. Od stanovnika koji su se tog dana zatekli u selu, slucajno su preživjeli masakr samo jedan starac i jedna žena.
Pocinitelji zlocina su govorili i talijanskim i njemackim jezikom.
Zlocina su Nijemci cinili pregršt cinili po citavom tlu Hrvatske, a kad je rijec o Dalmaciji, evo ti jedan mali “benigni” primjer iz Sinja. Tamo je njemacki komandant po dolasku njemacke vojske, nakon kapitulacije Italije pucanstvu obznanio ustaljenu kvotu 1:100, tj, za jednog ubijenog njemackog vojnika strijelja se 100, a za jednog ranjenog 50 gradana s doticnog podrucja. 3.11.1943. u Sinju je u nogu ranjen jedan njemacki vojnik. Pogodi epilog.
Što se tice njemacke suradnje s cetnicima, ona je uspostavljena i prije kapitulacije Italije, tako da su Njemci po odlasku Talijana u Dalmaciju ubacili postrojbe cetnika koji su bili predvodeni njemackim casnicima (npr. “Konradove postrojbe”).
dogadaju iz Sinja cinjenica, a strijeljanje je naredio SS potpukovnik Breihmeyer. O tome svjedoci izvješce glavara gradanske uprave za podrucje oslobodene Dalmacije te velikih župa Bribir-Sidraga i Cetina od 10.11.1943.
Mislim da nema potrebe relativizirati bilo cije zlocine tijekom 2. svj rata, a kako je ova tema posvecena talijanskima, s njima i nastavljam.
Pocetkom studenog 1942. talijanska vojska sa podrucja Puticanja, Ciste Male, Dragišica i Gaceleza odvodi preko 400 muškaraca u dobi od 16 do 60 godina u vodicki logor “hangar”. Sa podrucja Zatona tada je u “hangar” odvedeno 250 muškaraca, iz Vodica 150 i Tribunja 20-ak. Vecina dovedenih u ovim racijama je 4.11.1942. otpremljena na Molat. Isto se dešava sa svim zatecenim muškim stanovništvom iste dobi s podrucja Stankovaca i Crljenika. Jedino su zarobljeni iz Rasline odvedeni u šibenski zatvor odakle su svi kroz kratko vrijeme takoder prebaceni u logor na Molatu.
Ovo je djelomicni brojcani popis prvih zarobljenih i odvedenih u talijanski konc logor na Molatu:
29.06.1942. 247 ljudi iz Šibenika
30.06.1942. hapšenja i odvodenja su vršena na opcini Stankovci
3.07.1942. hapšenja i odvodenja su vršena na opcini Skradin
7. i 8.07.1942. hapšenja i odvodenja su vršena na opcini Primošten-Rogoznica
11.07.1942. iz Danila, Dubrave i Mandaline odvedeno je 123 ljudi
14.07.1942. iz Zatona je odvedeno 20 obitelji
16.07.1942. hapšenja i odvodenja su vršena u Betini, Murteru i Tisnom
19.07.1942. sa otoka Prvica (Šepurina i Luka) odvedeno je 240 ljudi
21.07.1942. hapšenje i odvodenje vršeno je U Ðevrskama
23.07.1942. sa Zlarina i Krapnja odvedeno je 89 ljudi
29.07.1942. iz Vodica i Tribunja je odvedeno 220 ljudi
ja dalje ne znam, ako tko zna nadopunit…..
Inace zarobljeni su odvodeni zloglasnim brodom “Ammiraglio Viotti” kojeg je narod prozvao “Crna Marica”.
ahahaaa, koja jad I bijeda, koji sugavci, ne mozete svi skupa skupiti pisljivih 4000 dolara, ahahaaaa. pa to je mojoj kcerki mjesecni pocket money, ahahaaaaa.
za pecinu spremni..evo kako ste bili “za dom spremni”…
.
Talijanski general Alfonso Cigala Fulgozi je 16. studenog 1942. zapovijedio pokretanje “velike” vojne operacije kojoj je za cilj bilo uništenje Primoštena i njegovih sela u zaledu. U napadu su sudjelovala dva bataljona bersagliera, jedan odred karabinjera, šest baterija topova, ceta lakih tenkova, jedna mornarska desantna ceta, jedna torpiljarka, dva manja vojna broda i tri aviona. Primošten i njegova sela su bili sravnjeni sa zemljom. Napad aviona, brodova, tenkova i topova je trajao 10 sati, nakon cega su se bersaglieri, karabinjeri i mornari okomili na preživjele. Do kraja dana pobijeno je 152 ljudi. Strijeljaljima koje je vršeno teškim mitraljezom zapovijedao je sam general Cigala. Kada se morala pogubiti jedna skupina žena i djece zakazao je mitraljez. Cigalu to nije smelo te je naredio da se skupinu raznese topovskim granatama. Njegovi vojnici su mu zbog tog cina nadjenuli nadimak “stari krvnik”.
No way we’ll be kicked out of WC, couldnt happen
Do any of you really believe that FIFA and UEFA comprehend the subtle art of Public Relations? In Qatar they are using migrant workers as slave labor. You have cases of Human Trafficking to help assemble their workforce. 44 Nepalese migrants have died already building their elaborate stadiums in the middle of the desert. To all of that, FIFA says “Its alarmed”
How many FIFA officials have been accused or found guilty of accepting bribes in the past decade? I believe two delegates in CONCACAF are suspended.
Scandal after scandal and you really think they would hesitate twice in banning us? They don’t give a damn.
I am hoping for a light fine and perhaps a game to Mandzukic at the most. However, when FIFA and UEFA are involved I am braced for the worst. They have been targeting us for quite some time.
If we get a stiff fine and 1 game to Mandzukic and perhaps 1 to Simunic we should consider ourselves lucky.
In either case, Joe needs to NOT pay this 25,000Kn fine and when he gets his ban from the World Cup, he needs to take that to court as well. Don’t accept guilt for a non crime.
It’s a shame that the HNS and the Cro national team players don’t have his back right now, mainly out of fear from any further repercussions from FIFA. However, if FIFA bans Cro from the tournament (which is the worst case scenario anyway) then I do think the players and HNS take a stand and would draw a lot of attention on this.
This is why I doubt FIFA bans Cro. Keep the Croats scared with your threats, but don’t go ahead with it or they’ll come at you with nothing to lose, and possibly end up forcing you to defend yourself to the rest of the world.
Not sure if FIFA wants to open up that can of worms.
If Cro gets kicked out of the WC, then I think they get the lawyers involved and this so called ‘nazi chant’ will get more focus that FIFA may want to see. At that point they would have to be very confident that this cannot be overturned in a court of law.
Then the comparisons to countries that are currently in the World Cup (ie. Italy, Russia, etc) will occur in the media and it could make FIFA look like an organization that is only interested in making an example of the smaller countries.
I think a big monetary fine and a ban of three games for Joe is that perfect equilibrium for FIFA where they can show the world that they are combatting ‘racism’ but will keep the HNS and the Cro media from making enough of a stink about it and not risk anything in pushing it further.
No chance in hell they kick Cro outta the World Cup…just not happening!
@ Vatrena Cast – The odds are quite good we receive some heavy punishment. Exclusion from the World Cup would not surprise me in the slightest. I cant recall who is was, Hajduk or Dinmao, however last year one was fined quite heavily for having the wrong sponsors on their goalie gloves for a European match. When the Western European power structures are looking at you for something that small, you better believe they will be looking to make an example out of us for anything they can possibly blame us for.
16 to go. I am in.
What are the chance we get kicked out of the World Cup?
Don’t forget to sign and forward this petition to all your friends. It’s going to Sepp Blatter after it hits the 50K mark.
http://www.change.org/petitions/fifa-support-for-josip-%C5%A1imuni%C4%87
It’s already climbed to 30K. At this rate, it should hit 50K in another week or so.